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Separating Facts From Fiction


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#41 TechMan

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:39 PM

It's clear as crystal. Bears have been losers over the past few weeks and bulls have been the winners. No amount of rationalization will change that fact. That aside, trading is a deep personal endeavour towards certain monetary goals, not a competition with some virtual characters on message boards. All these polarization on message boards is pretty silly and is only a reflection of confirmation bias. As for Atlasshrugged, i have seen umpteen real-time trades from him over the years and his credibility has never been in question. Bullish or bearish, he has always been unequivocal about the direction he plays.


First of all, NAV, no oneís questioning his credibility. Iíve re-read the thread again, and Iíve found no such thing, unless asking question in your opinion is questioning credibility.

Second, is this a personal issue calling me silly about my posts? I could come up with quite a few of your silly posts in the past. Did I say something about you lately? In fact, I donít even read any of your posts unless they happened to be in the threads that I was reading. Why getting personal with me?


Techman,

Easy buddy. I said all these competitive atttitude on message boards is silly. You seem to suffer from some sort of persecution complex, taking every comment on a message board as personal attack. Grow up man !


Well, only because you had commented on something that's not factual. And, if it's not factual, it's conceptual. So, what else would I have taken it?

I could come up with a ton of real silly posts here, and I've not seen you criticizing any of them.

You gorw up, son.


There was a guy called Moneyfriend on this board. He thought he was a gift to mankind and he voted himself out of this board, citing persecution from TT members and TT members not worthy of his TA skills. He moved over to da_cheif's site played the same emotional drama and kicked himself out of that site too. Let me tell ya. You seem to going in the same direction. You seem to be so sensitive about every friggin comment on a message board and possess a convoluted mindset to spin everything into a personal attack. Seriously, think for a second. Why would anyone have any personal vendetta about some virtual character called Techman on a message board ? A healthy debate involves disagreements. TT is not a sychophant club.



Again, stay focus with me here, NAV. Rembmer this thread's "Separating Facts from Fiction".

Why would you have commented on something thatís not even referenced in this thread? Iíve seen no one questioning anyoneís credibility.

Now, more importantly, you donít know me, and I donít know you. And, youíre comparing me to someone that you may or may not know in person. Is this factual or conceptual? You know what discrimination is, right?

Itís absolutely not true that I ďseem to be so sensitive about every friggin comment on a message board and possess a convoluted mindset to spin everything into a personal attackĒ. This threadís an excellent example. Did I get personal with atlasshrugged? Absolutely not. Therefore, once again, what youíre saying is not true. And, Iím sure youíve seen me in heated debates with quite a few members here. Iíve not recalled getting personal with them except for 2 posters, and now you.

So, tell me, when youíre saying all these things about me thatís not true, what else would I have taken it?


Techman:

What you need to do is go back and read Nav's first comment. By my reading he says nothing "personal" about you. Yet that is definitely how you took it. Frankly I think Nav nailed it when he refers to your seeming "persecution complex". This is not the first time you illustrated it. You know, you've been here about 4 months. Nav has been posting here for years, as long as I have. I don't recall right now that Nav has had any particular difficulties with anyone up to now. Something for you to think about.


And, who are you? The arbitrator on board? What makes you feel that youíd always have to step in to interfere with my affair with other members? What is it?

Why do I bother with you when you and I would never change our minds about each other? Iím staying firm with what I believe what you really are, and Iím sure you are too. Like Iíve said, youíre one of the only 2 posters that Iíve had problems with.

So, why?

#42 IndexTrader

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:43 PM

It's clear as crystal. Bears have been losers over the past few weeks and bulls have been the winners. No amount of rationalization will change that fact. That aside, trading is a deep personal endeavour towards certain monetary goals, not a competition with some virtual characters on message boards. All these polarization on message boards is pretty silly and is only a reflection of confirmation bias. As for Atlasshrugged, i have seen umpteen real-time trades from him over the years and his credibility has never been in question. Bullish or bearish, he has always been unequivocal about the direction he plays.


First of all, NAV, no oneís questioning his credibility. Iíve re-read the thread again, and Iíve found no such thing, unless asking question in your opinion is questioning credibility.

Second, is this a personal issue calling me silly about my posts? I could come up with quite a few of your silly posts in the past. Did I say something about you lately? In fact, I donít even read any of your posts unless they happened to be in the threads that I was reading. Why getting personal with me?


Techman,

Easy buddy. I said all these competitive atttitude on message boards is silly. You seem to suffer from some sort of persecution complex, taking every comment on a message board as personal attack. Grow up man !


Well, only because you had commented on something that's not factual. And, if it's not factual, it's conceptual. So, what else would I have taken it?

I could come up with a ton of real silly posts here, and I've not seen you criticizing any of them.

You gorw up, son.


There was a guy called Moneyfriend on this board. He thought he was a gift to mankind and he voted himself out of this board, citing persecution from TT members and TT members not worthy of his TA skills. He moved over to da_cheif's site played the same emotional drama and kicked himself out of that site too. Let me tell ya. You seem to going in the same direction. You seem to be so sensitive about every friggin comment on a message board and possess a convoluted mindset to spin everything into a personal attack. Seriously, think for a second. Why would anyone have any personal vendetta about some virtual character called Techman on a message board ? A healthy debate involves disagreements. TT is not a sychophant club.



Again, stay focus with me here, NAV. Rembmer this thread's "Separating Facts from Fiction".

Why would you have commented on something thatís not even referenced in this thread? Iíve seen no one questioning anyoneís credibility.

Now, more importantly, you donít know me, and I donít know you. And, youíre comparing me to someone that you may or may not know in person. Is this factual or conceptual? You know what discrimination is, right?

Itís absolutely not true that I ďseem to be so sensitive about every friggin comment on a message board and possess a convoluted mindset to spin everything into a personal attackĒ. This threadís an excellent example. Did I get personal with atlasshrugged? Absolutely not. Therefore, once again, what youíre saying is not true. And, Iím sure youíve seen me in heated debates with quite a few members here. Iíve not recalled getting personal with them except for 2 posters, and now you.

So, tell me, when youíre saying all these things about me thatís not true, what else would I have taken it?


Techman:

What you need to do is go back and read Nav's first comment. By my reading he says nothing "personal" about you. Yet that is definitely how you took it. Frankly I think Nav nailed it when he refers to your seeming "persecution complex". This is not the first time you illustrated it. You know, you've been here about 4 months. Nav has been posting here for years, as long as I have. I don't recall right now that Nav has had any particular difficulties with anyone up to now. Something for you to think about.


And, who are you? The arbitrator on board? What makes you feel that youíd always have to step in to interfere with my affair with other members? What is it?

Why do I bother with you when you and I would never change our minds about each other? Iím staying firm with what I believe what you really are, and Iím sure you are too. Like Iíve said, youíre one of the only 2 posters that Iíve had problems with.

So, why?


Why do you bother with me? I'm guessing it's because your persecution complex kicks in and you think I'm after you. :lol:

IT

#43 TechMan

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:45 PM

Why do you bother with me? I'm guessing it's because your persecution complex kicks in and you think I'm after you.


Nope, I don't think; I know that for a fact. Like I said, I've had no problem with others except with you. You drew the first blood, not I. Your latest statement is self-evident that's true.

I have more appropriate symptom for your type of behavior...

Edited by TechMan, 07 April 2010 - 10:50 PM.


#44 thespookyone

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:51 PM

NAV- you're a fine trader, and have more energy than me to do both on a fairly constant basis. I'm more interested in overnight trading at turns-but then I'll use options, not ES, which I'll still daytrade. In more than a daytrading time frame, I totally agree-it never makes sense to swim against the current. I'd also have to admit that in the back of my mind during the day=I expect my trades with the trend to end up larger than my chops against it, as they are usually corrective, and smaller in nature. Oddly though, the corrective moves are even more reliable target wise, as they are generally ABC's. Easy to spot, can trade at least two of the legs, and many times can be targeted ahead of time on ES to the exact quarter. To make up for lack of size, I usually double up the contract size when trading the ABC's during the day. Another somewhat rewarding aspect of daytrading lies in the ewave aspect. If I trade a wave down, and the ABC wave after is a 50 percent correction, followed by a 1,618 upmove (when size compared to the first leg) it matters not to me whether I just traded a completed ABC-or a 1,2,3-which could easily both have the exact same dimensions. If I were trading longer term, I'd NEED to know the difference.

#45 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:09 PM

Guys, I should just let it blow over, but but I won't. I'll just suggest that you guys just let it blow over. There's a bunch of legit nits to pick. It's best to do it when we're all on the same wave length. I truly love some of the minds here (and the minds we attract). If you think I haven't learned from you, you're nuts. You're the only reason TT still exists at my hand and with it at the rudder. Take a bit of time to just de escalate and relax a bit. Mark
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#46 NAV

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:13 PM

NAV- you're a fine trader, and have more energy than me to do both on a fairly constant basis. I'm more interested in overnight trading at turns-but then I'll use options, not ES, which I'll still daytrade. In more than a daytrading time frame, I totally agree-it never makes sense to swim against the current. I'd also have to admit that in the back of my mind during the day=I expect my trades with the trend to end up larger than my chops against it, as they are usually corrective, and smaller in nature. Oddly though, the corrective moves are even more reliable target wise, as they are generally ABC's. Easy to spot, can trade at least two of the legs, and many times can be targeted ahead of time on ES to the exact quarter. To make up for lack of size, I usually double up the contract size when trading the ABC's during the day. Another somewhat rewarding aspect of daytrading lies in the ewave aspect. If I trade a wave down, and the ABC wave after is a 50 percent correction, followed by a 1,618 upmove (when size compared to the first leg) it matters not to me whether I just traded a completed ABC-or a 1,2,3-which could easily both have the exact same dimensions. If I were trading longer term, I'd NEED to know the difference.


Precisely my point. Anything overnight, it's impossible to be a consistent winner against the trend. Either the gaps or trend will get you. Repeated assaults by the trend, will make you psychologically weak to take the signal when the real trend change happens. Been there, done it and endured the battle scars. Day trading is a different ballgame altogether.

"It's not the knowing that is difficult, but the doing"

 

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#47 atlasshrugged

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:16 AM

NAV- you're a fine trader, and have more energy than me to do both on a fairly constant basis. I'm more interested in overnight trading at turns-but then I'll use options, not ES, which I'll still daytrade. In more than a daytrading time frame, I totally agree-it never makes sense to swim against the current. I'd also have to admit that in the back of my mind during the day=I expect my trades with the trend to end up larger than my chops against it, as they are usually corrective, and smaller in nature. Oddly though, the corrective moves are even more reliable target wise, as they are generally ABC's. Easy to spot, can trade at least two of the legs, and many times can be targeted ahead of time on ES to the exact quarter. To make up for lack of size, I usually double up the contract size when trading the ABC's during the day. Another somewhat rewarding aspect of daytrading lies in the ewave aspect. If I trade a wave down, and the ABC wave after is a 50 percent correction, followed by a 1,618 upmove (when size compared to the first leg) it matters not to me whether I just traded a completed ABC-or a 1,2,3-which could easily both have the exact same dimensions. If I were trading longer term, I'd NEED to know the difference.


Precisely my point. Anything overnight, it's impossible to be a consistent winner against the trend. Either the gaps or trend will get you. Repeated assaults by the trend, will make you psychologically weak to take the signal when the real trend change happens. Been there, done it and endured the battle scars. Day trading is a different ballgame altogether.



LOL they say that which doesnt kill you makes you stronger...but you summed it up right there...I can't count the times that i couldnt pull myself to act on a
signal because of the psychological damage and monetary destruction from fighting a trend ...i have died the death of a thousand paper cuts several times over the past twenty years....

#48 thespookyone

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 07:57 AM

"Precisely my point. Anything overnight, it's impossible to be a consistent winner against the trend. Either the gaps or trend will get you. Repeated assaults by the trend, will make you psychologically weak to take the signal when the real trend change happens. Been there, done it and endured the battle scars. Day trading is a different ballgame altogether. " Too true, been there as well, long time ago, got the T shirt. Atlas-As I pointed out, I need only take 4 Es points a day to top the return of "sitting bulls"-if you think I can't do that-it's your perogative.

#49 IndexTrader

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:30 AM

"Precisely my point. Anything overnight, it's impossible to be a consistent winner against the trend. Either the gaps or trend will get you. Repeated assaults by the trend, will make you psychologically weak to take the signal when the real trend change happens. Been there, done it and endured the battle scars. Day trading is a different ballgame altogether. "

Too true, been there as well, long time ago, got the T shirt.

Atlas-As I pointed out, I need only take 4 Es points a day to top the return of "sitting bulls"-if you think I can't do that-it's your perogative.


A long time ago I did a little study. I figured out what the typical trend bought at somewhere near the low, and sold somewhere near the high made for you, on average. What I came up with was something like 2.5 points per day. So it becomes obvious that even in this relatively non-volatile climate that if you can catch the various intraday swings you can exceed that by quite a margin. And that of course is what causes so many to attempt day trading. Averaging 4 handles a day is no easy feat. I'll take you at your word that you do this, but I would also say that for most people it's the impossible dream.

IT

#50 milbank

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 08:50 AM

. . . What I came up with was something like 2.5 points per day. So it becomes obvious that even in this relatively non-volatile climate that if you can catch the various intraday swings you can exceed that by quite a margin.
IT


Bingo. This board either doesn't have a lot of day traders or, like me, they are too busy concentrating on trading to talk about it. It requires when in process, close to, if not total, concentration.

On a personal note, I find this "shirts or skins" bear/bull fighting and the personal insults made by some to others here, more than silly. I find it all very off-putting, amateurish and most importantly, useless to me.

Edited by milbank, 08 April 2010 - 09:00 AM.

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