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Climate Change Skeptics Out of Hand, Again


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#1 salsabob

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

There are several threads under this sub-forum that deal with Climate Change, nearly exclusively from the skeptics’ point of view. It use to be confined to the "Decade of cooler Temperatures" thread but that peter-out with my reporting there on the findings of Richard Muller, a Berkeley physicist and self-proclaimed climate skeptic, Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature (BEST) effort that clearly shows the climate has been warming -

http://www.traders-t...?...st&p=600353

I noted there that one of the three legs of the skeptic's stool had now been clearly knocked out. I also noted there that a second leg, i.e. temperatures in the last decade have leveled off or actually be cooling, may also be in doubt given that the effect is based on the month with the smallest data set and greatest uncertainty (see that thread). The third leg, which I believed the wiser of skeptics would turn to, remained as to whether any of the warming, past, present or future, was anthropogenic - I expressed my own agnostic belief and my openness to further study on that matter. I did note, however, that a one-legged stool is also known as a shaft and perhaps skeptics should be careful in their continued insistence on perching themselves upon it.

That thread obviously became a lot less fun for the skeptics and seems to have faded from view on the forum. My hope was that its fading signal an end to: presenting moot issues about e-mails and lost papers of other scientists; local weather reporting of the latest snowstorm that disproves the works of hundreds of scientists and thousands of research projects; and most hopefully, the end to cherry picking base years for "decade of cooling" nonsense. I'd recognized the skeptics’ need to attempt to throw a former member of their merry band, Dr. Mueller, under the bus, but I figured that eventually would die out as well. Certainly, as evident on the "Decade of cooler" thread, their initial pathetic attempts to use statements from Mueller's co-project leader, Dr. Curry, as a wedge proved more useful in exhibiting the skeptics’ "megaphone" use of the Internet to transmit false or misleading information over the Internet than it did in meeting their objective to dispute the BEST findings.

Since then, little has changed in real science world. There has been no credible refuting of the BEST findings. However, as reflected in the many new threads here, we have certainly gotten back to the entire nonsense megaphone shouting about lost papers and e-mails, local weather reports, cherry-picking start dates to prove cooling, and most of all, attempts to discredit people rather than the science.

I've held my tongue (or more accurately, my keyboard) for some time as this forum has slipped back into the pattern. We are now not only back to the above but also back to calling climate scientist pathetic and spewing garbage - that they should be ashamed for their enticing mobs with pitchforks.

Until someone here deals with the findings of the BEST project (and in a rational, logical manner that doesn’t' rely on trying to discredit the people involved or taking 3rd hand reporting of misquotes or any of the other tricks so evident to date on these climate-related threads), then what they claim as being those negative attributes of climate scientists is what is called in psychology a "projection of themselves onto the other.” Look it up.

I'm not really interested in further displays of cognitive dissonance on this topic. I'm here to learn about trading markets from experts (and that certainly includes from some of those who are most skeptical about this off-topic), but really at some point, one needs to respond to the stink of the pile getting higher and deeper once again on a forum that otherwise deserves considerable respect.

If, rather than provide more gibberish, you can actually take on the BEST, then do it. If you can't, maybe you should consider that other alternative to “putting up” .... at least on this topic.
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#2 diogenes227

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:56 PM

One of these is actually serious, as nutty as it gets:

1 ) Immigrants

2) White Collar Criminals

:D
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#3 stocks

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:11 PM

From: Phil Jones (p.jones@uxxxxx.uk) To: "Michael E. Mann" (mann@vxxxxxx.edu) Subject: HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL Date: Thu Jul 8 16:30:16 2004 [...] I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow - even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is ! Cheers, Phil

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#4 salsabob

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:32 PM

From: Phil Jones (p.jones@uxxxxx.uk)
To: "Michael E. Mann" (mann@vxxxxxx.edu)
Subject: HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
Date: Thu Jul 8 16:30:16 2004

[...] I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow
- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is !
Cheers, Phil


From a science perspective, the BEST project makes all the e-mail [non-]scandal a moot issue. Your continuing to cling and post it just makes you look awful silly.

It's like being on the Titanic as it begins to slip under the waves, and complaining about how dirty your bathroom sink was left by the maid.

Can you at least try to take it up a notch or two?

You know, you could at least argue sunspots or something.
John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?

#5 diogenes227

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:34 AM

THE naturalist and philosopher Henry David Thoreau coined a wonderful word for an imagined instrument in his 1854 book, “Walden”: the “realometer.” Thoreau’s realometer would allow an inquiring person to measure the reality of his perceptions, to push past the “mud and slush of opinion, and prejudice, and tradition, and delusion, and appearance ... to a hard bottom.”

The hard bottom? Flowers bloom earlier now than when Henry David walked the earth.

EARLY BLOOMERS

P.S.

I especially like the quote from Thoreau in the last line of the story.
"If you've heard this story before, don't stop me because I'd like to hear it again," Groucho Marx.

“I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted,” W.C. Fields.

#6 stocks

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:10 PM

Climategate 2.0 leaked emails:

I think the science is being manipulated to put a political spin on it which, for all our sakes, may not be too clever in the long run.
Thorne, UK met office

I criticized the Mann hockey stick; I just refused to give an exclusive interview to Spiegel because I will not cause damage to climate science.
Wanner, NCCR

I find myself in the strange position of being very skeptical of the quality of all present reconstructions yet sounding like a pro-greenhouse zealot.
Briffa

Getting people we know and trust into the IPCC is vital.
Phil Jones

The important thing is to make sure they are losing the PR battle. That's what the site Realclimate is about.
Michael Mann

It will be very difficult to make the medieval warming period to go away in Greenland.
Pollack

What if climate change appears to be just a natural fluctuation. They would kill us probably.
Wils

I am not convinced that the truth is always worth reaching at the cost damaged personal relationships.
Crowley

I am sure you agree the Mann/Jones GRL paper was truly pathetic and should never have been published.
Bradley

I am afraid that Mike is defending something that cannot be defended. He is investing too much personal stuff and not letting the science move ahead.
Cook

Basic problem is that all models are wrong - not enough middle and low level clouds.
Phil Jones

I gave up on Judith Curry a while ago. I don't know what she thinks she's doing, but it is not helping the cause.
Michael Mann


https://www.youtube....ture=plpp_video

The problem is too much government. The solution is apocalypse, and it is coming.

You know the credit cycle has peaked when the scandals arrive. - Michael Burry


#7 Rogerdodger

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 09:44 PM

No anthropogenic component could be determined by Muller's study.

Skeptics do not dispute that there has been 20th century warming (although the accuracy of its measurement is uncertain). They’ll talk for ages at the drop of a hat about the medieval warm period and the little ice age and the Roman warm period and the Minoan warm period and the Holocene optimum and all the other variations of our climate past. The idea that the climate might change is not controversial. The idea that the global climate had been totally flat up to the start of the 20th century, when it suddenly took off like a rocket is what is controversial. Showing a rise over the 20th century does not in any way prove skeptics wrong.

The last ten years is an argument about terminology. When you say “global warming” do you mean the increase in temperature, or do you mean CO2′s positive contribution to temperature? When you say “global warming in the last ten years” do you mean the trend in the last ten years’ data, or do you mean the last ten years of the trend in the last forty years’ data? They’re different. As is the question of what it means.

(The 10-year problem was made worse here by an error in one of the papers, in which the trend was calculated but an outlying point in January 2007 pulled the trend artificially high. Because it doesn’t fit the Normal distribution, the trend calculation method used is invalid. Muller had initially thought the data showed no slowdown in the last 10 years even as the skeptics defined it, and said so in his initial interviews, but on seeing the data plotted agreed that it had.)

http://www.yaleclimatemediaforum.org/2011/12/did-mullers-best-study-cool-the-heated-global-warming-rhetoric/

Edited by Rogerdodger, 20 April 2012 - 09:45 PM.


#8 Rogerdodger

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:11 AM

It's humorous that the title of this thread is "Global Warming er... "Climate Change Skeptics Out of hand, Again" (Sorry about that. I forgot you had to change the name once we hit all of that record cold in the last decade of lower temperatures.)

Anyway, who is out of hand?

Climate Alarmist Calls For Burning Down Skeptics' Homes...
Posted Image

Writing for Forbes Magazine, climate change alarmist Steve Zwick calls for skeptics of man-made global warming to be tracked, hunted down and have their homes burned to the ground, yet another shocking illustration of how eco-fascism is rife within the environmentalist lobby.
Fewer and fewer Americans are convinced by the pseudo-science behind man-made global warming, promulgated as it is by control freaks like Zwick who care more about money and power than they do the environment, AGW adherents are becoming increasingly authoritarian in their pronouncements.

Even as the science itself disproves their theories – Arctic ice is thickening, polar bears and penguins are thriving, Himalayan glaciers are growing – climate change alarmists are only becoming more aggressive in their attacks against anyone who dares question the global warming mantra.

Earlier month we highlighted Professor Kari Norgaard’s call for climate skeptics to be likened to racists and ‘treated’ for having a mental disorder. In a letter to Barack Obama, Norgaard also called on the President to ignore the will of the people and suspend democracy in order to enforce draconian ecological mandates.


No anthropogenic component could be determined by Muller's study.
Who's out of hand?

Edited by Rogerdodger, 21 April 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#9 SemiBizz

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:28 AM

Give it a few more years and then everyone will be freaking out over global cooling... Like they were in the 70s. What goes around, comes around. :lol:
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#10 salsabob

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 10:17 PM

Climategate 2.0 leaked emails:

I think the science is being manipulated to put a political spin on it which, for all our sakes, may not be too clever in the long run.
Thorne, UK met office

I criticized the Mann hockey stick; I just refused to give an exclusive interview to Spiegel because I will not cause damage to climate science.
Wanner, NCCR

I find myself in the strange position of being very skeptical of the quality of all present reconstructions yet sounding like a pro-greenhouse zealot.
Briffa

Getting people we know and trust into the IPCC is vital.
Phil Jones

The important thing is to make sure they are losing the PR battle. That's what the site Realclimate is about.
Michael Mann

It will be very difficult to make the medieval warming period to go away in Greenland.
Pollack

What if climate change appears to be just a natural fluctuation. They would kill us probably.
Wils

I am not convinced that the truth is always worth reaching at the cost damaged personal relationships.
Crowley

I am sure you agree the Mann/Jones GRL paper was truly pathetic and should never have been published.
Bradley

I am afraid that Mike is defending something that cannot be defended. He is investing too much personal stuff and not letting the science move ahead.
Cook

Basic problem is that all models are wrong - not enough middle and low level clouds.
Phil Jones

I gave up on Judith Curry a while ago. I don't know what she thinks she's doing, but it is not helping the cause.
Michael Mann


https://www.youtube....ture=plpp_video


Can you explain how any of this has anything to do with the fact that global warming has occurred as determined by the BEST project?

Thomas Paine: 'To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.'
John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?