532 replies to this topic

[diogenes227]

Fry Cook Shifted to Part-Time Work Confronts Obama...

During a Google Hangout session on Friday, 57 year old fry cook Darnell Summers told President Obama that his hours were cut due to the Affordable Care Act.
“We were broken down to part time to avoid paying health insurance,” he said. Summers explained that he makes $7.25 an hour.

The president did not address Summers’s comments about the healthcare law.
Nor did he address the epic failure on the Great Society's War On Poverty and it's destruction of the family and the failed eduction system controlled by unions.

Sometimes I wish the President would not be so diplomatic and actually tell it like it is -- this unfortunate guy's hours were not cut because of the Affordable Care Act, the hours were cut because his employer is an unadulterated a-hole.

[Rogerdodger]

the hours were cut because his employer is an unadulterated a-hole.

Really? Then why don't you hire him with a "living wage" & full benefits?
You never answer that question for some reason.

[*JB*]

the hours were cut because his employer is an unadulterated a-hole.

Really? Then why don't you hire him with a "living wage" & full benefits?
You never answer that question for some reason.

Obamacare’s scorekeepers deliver a game-changer
By Dana Milbank, Washington Post Tuesday, February 4, 8:12 PM
For years, the White House has trotted out the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to show that Obamacare would cut health-care costs and reduce deficits:

<snip>

Live by the sword, die by the sword, the Bible tells us. In Washington, it’s slightly different: Live by the CBO, die by the CBO.

The congressional number-crunchers, perhaps the capital’s closest thing to a neutral referee, came out with a new report Tuesday, and it wasn’t pretty for Obamacare. The CBO predicted the law (Obamacare) would have a “substantially larger” impact on the labor market than it had previously expected: The law would reduce the workforce in 2021 by the equivalent of 2.3 million full-time workers, well more than the 800,000 originally anticipated.

[Lee48]

Low wage and or single temp workers making less than $15K per yr can now get medical coverage thru medicaid in the states that expanded the coverage.
About 21 states have not expanded coverage including OK and TX. In those states poor people making 15K will get no med ins.

http://www.advisory....ers/medicaidmap

[salsabob]

the hours were cut because his employer is an unadulterated a-hole.

Really? Then why don't you hire him with a "living wage" & full benefits?
You never answer that question for some reason.

Obamacare’s scorekeepers deliver a game-changer
By Dana Milbank, Washington Post Tuesday, February 4, 8:12 PM
For years, the White House has trotted out the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to show that Obamacare would cut health-care costs and reduce deficits:

<snip>

Live by the sword, die by the sword, the Bible tells us. In Washington, it’s slightly different: Live by the CBO, die by the CBO.

The congressional number-crunchers, perhaps the capital’s closest thing to a neutral referee, came out with a new report Tuesday, and it wasn’t pretty for Obamacare. The CBO predicted the law (Obamacare) would have a “substantially larger” impact on the labor market than it had previously expected: The law would reduce the workforce in 2021 by the equivalent of 2.3 million full-time workers, well more than the 800,000 originally anticipated.

What Milbank was trying to point out is that the upcoming mid-term elections are about low-informational ideologue voters coming out in force and that a 100+ page CBO report is perfect for getting them foaming at the mouth with twisted propaganda over something the report doesn't actually say but that they would never bother to independently think through for themselves - i.e., Koch Brothers' sheeple.

I realize it is worthless to inject some truth into the dead enders' echo chamber, but just for fun, I'll do it anyway (or, one can go to any of the mass media outlets and watch them stumble all over themselves trying to correct their falling for the initial propaganda over the CBO report - it is pretty funny as well as possible instructive, for some).

- CBO didn't say 2.5 million people would be given pink slips. What they did say is "hours worked" would be reduce to a level equivalent to 2.5 million leaving the workforce.
- Those reducing their hours, including those that just quit altogether, would be doing so voluntarily - basically, they were working ONLY to gain access to less-expensive health insurance. Up until this year, the heavily govt subsidized employer-based insurance results in a price subsidy for those employed. That creates a barrier to those who would prefer to be self-employed, women who would prefer to spend time with their kids rather than co-workers, or older people who would like to quit a dead end job but can't due to losing health coverage. Obamacare changes all that for them by leveling the playing field between employer-based insurance and non-employer based insurance. That personal freedom is something that many in the echo chamber will occasionally tout; to whine about it now seems a bit hypocritical.
- Employers still need those working hours; the ACA impact is on the supply of labor side, not the demand side. As a result, this might put some upward pressure on wages but given that for every job opening, there are 2-3 applicants, probable not much. But even if it does result in wage increases, in our economy, that would be a very very good thing.

Even Paul Ryan gets it -

http://talkingpoints...-gop-job-losses

Paul Ryan Fact-Checks Republicans On Obamacare Job 'Costs'

Here's some other items in the CBO report that one will not find in the dead enders' echo chamber -

- Regarding real jobs:

"On page 124, the report estimates that the ACA will "boost overall demand for goods and services over the next few years because the people who will benefit from the expansion of Medicaid and from access to the exchange subsidies are predominantly in lower-income households and thus are likely to spend a considerable fraction of their additional resources on goods and services." This, the report says, "will in turn boost demand for labor over the next few years."

- regarding 'insurer bailouts':

“CBO now projects that, over the 2015–2017 period, risk corridor payments from the federal government to health insurers will total $8 billion and that the corresponding collections from insurers will amount to $16 billion, yielding net savings for the federal government of $8 billion.” (Page 116)

A bailout where the govt makes $8 billion??? Also, this makes 'not enough young signing up' even if it happens (doubtful) a moot point

- regarding premiums:

“CBO and JCT lowered their estimate of average premiums for insurance coverage through exchanges in 2014 by about 15 percent on the basis of a preliminary analysis of plans offered through exchanges. Because the information about premiums and enrollment is still limited, however, CBO and JCT have not adjusted their projections of premiums for years after 2014. (Page 120)

- regarding the deficit:

The federal budget deficit has fallen sharply during the past few years, and it is on a path to decline further this year and next year. CBO estimates that under current law, the deficit will total $514 billion in fiscal year 2014, compared with $1.4 trillion in 2009. At that level, this year’s deficit would equal 3.0 percent of the nation’s economic output, or gross domestic product (GDP)—close to the average percentage of GDP seen during the past 40 years.

CBO Report - generally good news for most. But for O'care dead enders, a sad. A big sad, but obviously not big enough to stop the dead enders' spin, eh?

[*JB*]

the hours were cut because his employer is an unadulterated a-hole.

Really? Then why don't you hire him with a "living wage" & full benefits?
You never answer that question for some reason.

Obamacare’s scorekeepers deliver a game-changer
By Dana Milbank, Washington Post Tuesday, February 4, 8:12 PM
For years, the White House has trotted out the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office to show that Obamacare would cut health-care costs and reduce deficits:

<snip>

Live by the sword, die by the sword, the Bible tells us. In Washington, it’s slightly different: Live by the CBO, die by the CBO.

The congressional number-crunchers, perhaps the capital’s closest thing to a neutral referee, came out with a new report Tuesday, and it wasn’t pretty for Obamacare. The CBO predicted the law (Obamacare) would have a “substantially larger” impact on the labor market than it had previously expected: The law would reduce the workforce in 2021 by the equivalent of 2.3 million full-time workers, well more than the 800,000 originally anticipated.

What Milbank was trying to point out is that the upcoming mid-term elections are about low-informational ideologue voters coming out in force and that a 100+ page CBO report is perfect for getting them foaming at the mouth with twisted propaganda over something the report doesn't actually say but that they would never bother to independently think through for themselves - i.e., Koch Brothers' sheeple.

I realize it is worthless to inject some truth into the dead enders' echo chamber, but just for fun, I'll do it anyway (or, one can go to any of the mass media outlets and watch them stumble all over themselves trying to correct their falling for the initial propaganda over the CBO report - it is pretty funny as well as possible instructive, for some).

- CBO didn't say 2.5 million people would be given pink slips. What they did say is "hours worked" would be reduce to a level equivalent to 2.5 million leaving the workforce.
- Those reducing their hours, including those that just quit altogether, would be doing so voluntarily - basically, they were working ONLY to gain access to less-expensive health insurance. Up until this year, the heavily govt subsidized employer-based insurance results in a price subsidy for those employed. That creates a barrier to those who would prefer to be self-employed, women who would prefer to spend time with their kids rather than co-workers, or older people who would like to quit a dead end job but can't due to losing health coverage. Obamacare changes all that for them by leveling the playing field between employer-based insurance and non-employer based insurance. That personal freedom is something that many in the echo chamber will occasionally tout; to whine about it now seems a bit hypocritical.
- Employers still need those working hours; the ACA impact is on the supply of labor side, not the demand side. As a result, this might put some upward pressure on wages but given that for every job opening, there are 2-3 applicants, probable not much. But even if it does result in wage increases, in our economy, that would be a very very good thing.

Even Paul Ryan gets it -

http://talkingpoints...-gop-job-losses

Paul Ryan Fact-Checks Republicans On Obamacare Job 'Costs'

Here's some other items in the CBO report that one will not find in the dead enders' echo chamber -

- Regarding real jobs:

"On page 124, the report estimates that the ACA will "boost overall demand for goods and services over the next few years because the people who will benefit from the expansion of Medicaid and from access to the exchange subsidies are predominantly in lower-income households and thus are likely to spend a considerable fraction of their additional resources on goods and services." This, the report says, "will in turn boost demand for labor over the next few years."

- regarding 'insurer bailouts':

“CBO now projects that, over the 2015–2017 period, risk corridor payments from the federal government to health insurers will total $8 billion and that the corresponding collections from insurers will amount to $16 billion, yielding net savings for the federal government of $8 billion.” (Page 116)

A bailout where the govt makes $8 billion??? Also, this makes 'not enough young signing up' even if it happens (doubtful) a moot point

- regarding premiums:

“CBO and JCT lowered their estimate of average premiums for insurance coverage through exchanges in 2014 by about 15 percent on the basis of a preliminary analysis of plans offered through exchanges. Because the information about premiums and enrollment is still limited, however, CBO and JCT have not adjusted their projections of premiums for years after 2014. (Page 120)

- regarding the deficit:

The federal budget deficit has fallen sharply during the past few years, and it is on a path to decline further this year and next year. CBO estimates that under current law, the deficit will total $514 billion in fiscal year 2014, compared with $1.4 trillion in 2009. At that level, this year’s deficit would equal 3.0 percent of the nation’s economic output, or gross domestic product (GDP)—close to the average percentage of GDP seen during the past 40 years.

CBO Report - generally good news for most. But for O'care dead enders, a sad. A big sad, but obviously not big enough to stop the dead enders' spin, eh?

Finally someone is doing their research, not just reading Salon or Atlantic. In any case, whatever the reason, that same report (page 111) says that there will be more uninsured in 10 years than if the ACA was not passed AND the loss of actual HEALTH CARE and doctors. Back to emergency rooms as primary care, more incentive to not strive to better their life -- and -- to be dependent on the government subsidies.


IOW, more destruction of the dynamism of the of the American economy....all at the cost of trillions and deterioration of the health system.

[Lee48]

Can everyone agree that the US healthcare system is already broken, very expensive, even for people with good jobs that pay for their med ins. Corporations should love this as they don't have to supply the huge premiums for med coverage, like Walmart, etc.
Outrageous pricing policies, and full of fraud.

But for once the low income, poor, young and old get to see a doctor instead of going to the emergency room and without meaning financial ruin. Like other first tier countries.
A typical medicaid expansion state like WV says it will cover near 100,000 uninsured and create 6,000 new jobs in the spillover effect. And premiums could go down for all. Why all the hate?

[*JB*]

Can everyone agree that the US healthcare system is already broken, very expensive, even for people with good jobs that pay for their med ins. Corporations should love this as they don't have to supply the huge premiums for med coverage, like Walmart, etc.
Outrageous pricing policies, and full of fraud.

Broken -- no. has problems yes. If a house needs fixing, you don't blow it up if there is no other place to go.

But for once the low income, poor, young and old get to see a doctor instead of going to the emergency room and without meaning financial ruin. Like other first tier countries.
A typical medicaid expansion state like WV says it will cover near 100,000 uninsured and create 6,000 new jobs in the spillover effect. And premiums could go down for all. Why all the hate?

First, it is not about insurance, it's about CARE.
*Medicaid is accepted by nearly no doctors since it costs them more to do the paper work than they get paid.
*nearly 31,000,000 will be left Uninsured after all of the ACA is implemented -- government's own figures....even afteer trillions spent.
*there will be little affect on reducing emergency room use
*"First tier" countries are moving AWAY from government run health care back toward private insurance due to horrible problems -- outrageous results like NHS had 1200 people die of starvation IN HOSPITAL in the latest 4 year period reported.
*MORE people (per population) go bankrupt due to medical costs in Canada than the US. (there is much -- much -- more to list!!!!)
*NO projection of other than premiums -- and deductibles -- going UP anywhere. Just HOPE.
*DRASTIC reduction in number of doctors available to people except in the most expensive plan networks.
*A great deal of this is financed by over a 1/2 TRILLION taken from medicare and the near elimination of Medicare advantage -- medicare repayments dropping fast as of 1/1/14.

More for later -- but that "why the hate".

[Lee48]

Can everyone agree that the US healthcare system is already broken, very expensive, even for people with good jobs that pay for their med ins. Corporations should love this as they don't have to supply the huge premiums for med coverage, like Walmart, etc.
Outrageous pricing policies, and full of fraud.

Broken -- no. has problems yes. If a house needs fixing, you don't blow it up if there is no other place to go.

But for once the low income, poor, young and old get to see a doctor instead of going to the emergency room and without meaning financial ruin. Like other first tier countries.
A typical medicaid expansion state like WV says it will cover near 100,000 uninsured and create 6,000 new jobs in the spillover effect. And premiums could go down for all. Why all the hate?

First, it is not about insurance, it's about CARE.
*Medicaid is accepted by nearly no doctors since it costs them more to do the paper work than they get paid.
*nearly 31,000,000 will be left Uninsured after all of the ACA is implemented -- government's own figures....even afteer trillions spent.
*there will be little affect on reducing emergency room use
*"First tier" countries are moving AWAY from government run health care back toward private insurance due to horrible problems -- outrageous results like NHS had 1200 people die of starvation IN HOSPITAL in the latest 4 year period reported.
*MORE people (per population) go bankrupt due to medical costs in Canada than the US. (there is much -- much -- more to list!!!!)
*NO projection of other than premiums -- and deductibles -- going UP anywhere. Just HOPE.
*DRASTIC reduction in number of doctors available to people except in the most expensive plan networks.
*A great deal of this is financed by over a 1/2 TRILLION taken from medicare and the near elimination of Medicare advantage -- medicare repayments dropping fast as of 1/1/14.

More for later -- but that "why the hate".

Please, it's about "care"...lol By now you should have figured out that "nobody cares".
It's all about "profits". You sure you don't work for the ins industry or a hospital?
You also spouted off a lot of so-called facts without backing up anything.

Plus, if US born doctors don't want a job in the US, there's thousands more around the world ready to take their place. Like from India, etc.
Like my old job often told us, there's a thousand mf'ers ready to take your job. See ya later.
Just check out the employees at MSFT and Blue Cross and Blue Shield etc, use and bring in on their "work visas". They lobby congress to bring in workers and pay them cheap while shedding US workers. Yeah, we care.....

[*JB*]

Can everyone agree that the US healthcare system is already broken, very expensive, even for people with good jobs that pay for their med ins. Corporations should love this as they don't have to supply the huge premiums for med coverage, like Walmart, etc.
Outrageous pricing policies, and full of fraud.

Broken -- no. has problems yes. If a house needs fixing, you don't blow it up if there is no other place to go.

But for once the low income, poor, young and old get to see a doctor instead of going to the emergency room and without meaning financial ruin. Like other first tier countries.
A typical medicaid expansion state like WV says it will cover near 100,000 uninsured and create 6,000 new jobs in the spillover effect. And premiums could go down for all. Why all the hate?

First, it is not about insurance, it's about CARE.
*Medicaid is accepted by nearly no doctors since it costs them more to do the paper work than they get paid.
*nearly 31,000,000 will be left Uninsured after all of the ACA is implemented -- government's own figures....even afteer trillions spent.
*there will be little affect on reducing emergency room use
*"First tier" countries are moving AWAY from government run health care back toward private insurance due to horrible problems -- outrageous results like NHS had 1200 people die of starvation IN HOSPITAL in the latest 4 year period reported.
*MORE people (per population) go bankrupt due to medical costs in Canada than the US. (there is much -- much -- more to list!!!!)
*NO projection of other than premiums -- and deductibles -- going UP anywhere. Just HOPE.
*DRASTIC reduction in number of doctors available to people except in the most expensive plan networks.
*A great deal of this is financed by over a 1/2 TRILLION taken from medicare and the near elimination of Medicare advantage -- medicare repayments dropping fast as of 1/1/14.

More for later -- but that "why the hate".

Please, it's about "care"...lol By now you should have figured out that "nobody cares".
It's all about "profits". You sure you don't work for the ins industry or a hospital?
You also spouted off a lot of so-called facts without backing up anything.

Plus, if US born doctors don't want a job in the US, there's thousands more around the world ready to take their place. Like from India, etc.
Like my old job often told us, there's a thousand mf'ers ready to take your job. See ya later.
Just check out the employees at MSFT and Blue Cross and Blue Shield etc, use and bring in on their "work visas". They lobby congress to bring in workers and pay them cheap while shedding US workers. Yeah, we care.....

EVERY "fact" I listed has been posted by me before -- with links (usually from NON ideological sources when EVER I can find them). My answer was to "why the hate" -- my reply was in regard to ACTUAL health care is the issue, not just the pretext of universal insurance. Do some research on Medicaid and actual HEALTH care that gives anyone...or is that too much do with a doobie in one hand.

In any case, you have access to everything I have referred to, they are easily available to check --- but --- you, like most of the rest, are too fricking intellectually lazy to do simple google searches for things that are easily available -- but --- don't support your opinions. Like most on the left -- you rely on being spoon fed by "preferred" biased sources and/or what you mind makes up. I read ALL sides -- and check ALL objective support where available -- and what is left out -- before I even consider them credible. not matter if it supports my own POV OR NOT!

Edited by *JB*, 06 February 2014 - 08:50 PM.