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"The law is my mouth"


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#1 colion

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:39 PM

You gotta have standing




Why President Obama Can Break The Law With Impunity




By James Blumstein and Alex Tolbert — Mr. Blumstein is an American legal and health scholar at Vanderbilt University. Mr. Tolbert is the founder of Bernard Health.

"The law is in my mouth."

Thus spoke King John of England before he was forced at the point of a sword on June 15, 1215 A.D. to eat his words by signing the Magna Carta, the first in a series of documents that established rule of law in England – versus rule by whatever the king says. It was a signal moment in the history of civilization, and the foundation of the United States' great experiment in government of the people, by the people and for the people.

When it comes to healthcare reform, many accuse President Obama of sharing King John's pre-Magna Carta attitude as he continuously and unilaterally changes the law without going to Congress. In fact, 11 state attorneys general recently signed a letter to former Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius protesting that the administration is violating the law by making changes without congressional approval.

"The Administration may not decide single-handedly which parts of the law it will enforce and which parts it will ignore. The only way to fix this problem-ridden law is through congressional action," the attorneys general wrote.

Those who rush to President Obama's defense often say, in effect, "If the President is acting illegally, then why isn't anyone suing?" The lack of lawsuits, they contend, indicates that President Obama is acting within the law.

What these defenders fail to take into account is the legal principle of "standing." The principle of "standing" requires that, in order to bring a lawsuit, a party must be able to prove that it is directly and adversely affected by the action in question – i.e., that it is injured in a distinct and individualized manner. As former Chief Justice Warren Burger held in United States vs. Richardson, an important Supreme Court case pertaining to a taxpayer's right to sue the federal government, "… to invoke judicial power, the claimant must have a personal stake in the outcome, in short, something more than generalized grievances…."

As a general matter, the Obama Administration's breaches of the Affordable Care Act have been quite strategic, not adversely affecting any one person or entity. Just the opposite: the administration has blocked implementation of portions of the law so as to benefit individuals or groups and thereby soften the adverse political impact of the ACA. Those that benefit are not injured directly; those that suffer are adversely affected, but only in a very generalized way. As a result, with an important exception, no one has had "standing" and no one has been able to sue.

For example, the 11 attorneys general objected in their letter to the White House's decree that insurance companies can ignore the ACA's prohibition against offering so-called "sub-standard" healthcare plans. No individual has been hurt with this decree; the point is to benefit those individuals and offset their political opposition to the ACA. The harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers who have difficulty tracing that harm in a measurable way to the White House's decision.

A similar phenomenon exists when the Obama Administration postponed the tax penalty on large employers that did not provide comprehensive and affordable health insurance to their employees as of January 1, 2014 (as required by the ACA). Again, this assuages a political constituency and benefits those entities; they are not harmed, do not have standing, and therefore have nothing to sue about. Taxpayers or ratepayers who suffer from the forgone revenue confront generalized grievances that courts have found to be an insufficient basis for standing to sue.

An important exception to these examples – and an important issue to watch – involves an IRS regulation that provides for subsidies to income-qualified individuals on federally-run exchanges. The ACA provides for two types of exchanges – one run by states and the other run by the federal government, when states elect not to set up an exchange. The statute itself only provides for subsidy on state-established exchanges, but the IRS has expanded those subsidies to cover federally-run exchanges as well.

Parties who are directly and individually hurt by the IRS have come forward to challenge the IRS regulation, and cases are pending in four jurisdictions; one case has already been argued in the Court of Appeals in D.C., and another (from Virginia) is pending argument in the Court of Appeals in Richmond. These cases should be watched carefully, as they provide courts with an opportunity to rein in the IRS that has seemingly exercised authority not conferred by the ACA.

Two trial courts have approved the IRS regulation on the ground that Congress intended to expand subsidies to those on federally-run as well as state-run exchanges. But the issue for the courts is not some abstraction about what Congress intended to do but what it, in fact, did. And about that there can be little dispute. It provided for subsidies on state-run exchanges established under Section 1311 of the ACA; it did not provide for subsidies on federally-run exchanges under an entirely different section of the ACA (Section 1321). Stay tuned.

Bottom line: the fact that, with the exception discussed above, no one has sued over President Obama's attitude that the healthcare law "is in his mouth" has nothing to do with whether he is right or wrong, but rather that no one has had "standing" to bring suit.

"But wait," one might ask, "if the Supreme Court won't let people use the courts to stop our elected leaders from unilaterally changing the law by fiat, then what does it have in mind for us to do?"

Vote.

Edited by colion, 07 May 2014 - 03:42 PM.


#2 salsabob

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 12:50 PM

You gotta have standing




Why President Obama Can Break The Law With Impunity




By James Blumstein and Alex Tolbert — Mr. Blumstein is an American legal and health scholar at Vanderbilt University. Mr. Tolbert is the founder of Bernard Health.

"The law is in my mouth."

Thus spoke King John of England before he was forced at the point of a sword on June 15, 1215 A.D. to eat his words by signing the Magna Carta, the first in a series of documents that established rule of law in England – versus rule by whatever the king says. It was a signal moment in the history of civilization, and the foundation of the United States' great experiment in government of the people, by the people and for the people.

When it comes to healthcare reform, many accuse President Obama of sharing King John's pre-Magna Carta attitude as he continuously and unilaterally changes the law without going to Congress. In fact, 11 state attorneys general recently signed a letter to former Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius protesting that the administration is violating the law by making changes without congressional approval.

"The Administration may not decide single-handedly which parts of the law it will enforce and which parts it will ignore. The only way to fix this problem-ridden law is through congressional action," the attorneys general wrote.

Those who rush to President Obama's defense often say, in effect, "If the President is acting illegally, then why isn't anyone suing?" The lack of lawsuits, they contend, indicates that President Obama is acting within the law.

What these defenders fail to take into account is the legal principle of "standing." The principle of "standing" requires that, in order to bring a lawsuit, a party must be able to prove that it is directly and adversely affected by the action in question – i.e., that it is injured in a distinct and individualized manner. As former Chief Justice Warren Burger held in United States vs. Richardson, an important Supreme Court case pertaining to a taxpayer's right to sue the federal government, "… to invoke judicial power, the claimant must have a personal stake in the outcome, in short, something more than generalized grievances…."

As a general matter, the Obama Administration's breaches of the Affordable Care Act have been quite strategic, not adversely affecting any one person or entity. Just the opposite: the administration has blocked implementation of portions of the law so as to benefit individuals or groups and thereby soften the adverse political impact of the ACA. Those that benefit are not injured directly; those that suffer are adversely affected, but only in a very generalized way. As a result, with an important exception, no one has had "standing" and no one has been able to sue.

For example, the 11 attorneys general objected in their letter to the White House's decree that insurance companies can ignore the ACA's prohibition against offering so-called "sub-standard" healthcare plans. No individual has been hurt with this decree; the point is to benefit those individuals and offset their political opposition to the ACA. The harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers who have difficulty tracing that harm in a measurable way to the White House's decision.

A similar phenomenon exists when the Obama Administration postponed the tax penalty on large employers that did not provide comprehensive and affordable health insurance to their employees as of January 1, 2014 (as required by the ACA). Again, this assuages a political constituency and benefits those entities; they are not harmed, do not have standing, and therefore have nothing to sue about. Taxpayers or ratepayers who suffer from the forgone revenue confront generalized grievances that courts have found to be an insufficient basis for standing to sue.

An important exception to these examples – and an important issue to watch – involves an IRS regulation that provides for subsidies to income-qualified individuals on federally-run exchanges. The ACA provides for two types of exchanges – one run by states and the other run by the federal government, when states elect not to set up an exchange. The statute itself only provides for subsidy on state-established exchanges, but the IRS has expanded those subsidies to cover federally-run exchanges as well.

Parties who are directly and individually hurt by the IRS have come forward to challenge the IRS regulation, and cases are pending in four jurisdictions; one case has already been argued in the Court of Appeals in D.C., and another (from Virginia) is pending argument in the Court of Appeals in Richmond. These cases should be watched carefully, as they provide courts with an opportunity to rein in the IRS that has seemingly exercised authority not conferred by the ACA.

Two trial courts have approved the IRS regulation on the ground that Congress intended to expand subsidies to those on federally-run as well as state-run exchanges. But the issue for the courts is not some abstraction about what Congress intended to do but what it, in fact, did. And about that there can be little dispute. It provided for subsidies on state-run exchanges established under Section 1311 of the ACA; it did not provide for subsidies on federally-run exchanges under an entirely different section of the ACA (Section 1321). Stay tuned.

Bottom line: the fact that, with the exception discussed above, no one has sued over President Obama's attitude that the healthcare law "is in his mouth" has nothing to do with whether he is right or wrong, but rather that no one has had "standing" to bring suit.

"But wait," one might ask, "if the Supreme Court won't let people use the courts to stop our elected leaders from unilaterally changing the law by fiat, then what does it have in mind for us to do?"

Vote.



I'm not sure how the Prez and the SCOTUS following the law in regard to "standing" somehow results in King George redux - you do understand that "standing" is an element of the law, right? Or is the law only something everyone should follow when it agrees with you and disregarded when it is not? Seems just a tad hypocritical.

But putting that aside, the claim here is that "the harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers" - just what rates or taxes have gone up as a result of these measures. I'm not talking about the tanning tax or the medical devices tax - those are in the actual ACA; I don't like those taxes but they have nothing to do with the executive orders taken. Similarly the rates for 2014 were set long before any of these executive orders took place, and the CEOs for the biggest insurers were on the Hill today telling the GOP desperate to find something wrong with Obamacare that they currently have no clue what the rates will be in 2015. So tell us what rate or tax increase, generalized or not, have actually resulted from any of these??? Maybe I should claim that the stomach cramp I got today is from Obama's executive orders rather than that old leftover lasagna I had for lunch - without the need to show ""standing" I'm sure I could get some compensation from the courts for that! :rolleyes:

Funny when people that think somebody is doing something against the law obviously have no clue as to what laws are - they just assume that if it results in something they don't like then it must be something nefarious. Pretty silly stuff. <_<
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#3 colion

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 04:16 PM

... the claim here is that "the harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers" - just what rates or taxes have gone up as a result of these measures.


Surely you jest and know that the official word is that Obamacare is paid for in part through collected taxes and penalties (i.e., taxes). What is one of the major expenses of Obamacare? Think, for example, bureaucrats and subsidies. So, if Obama waves a magic wand and eliminates the need for a major source of such revenues to be delayed while at the same time bureaucrats reproduce like rabbits and subsidies are being granted to a large number of people (larger than expected) than who pays? You for one. But since this is not specifically aimed at you and you only feel 'generalized collateral' damage you are not deemed to have standing. However, you will pay for that now or later by increased taxes and/or debt. But its for a good cause. This is pretty serious stuff that is lost on many who can't see beyond their political horizon. But obviously many do see and shamefully contribute to Obamacare's negative polls.

Of course, the whole economic underpinning of Obamacare is a farce. The word is out that the IRS was specifically not empowered under the law to collect Obamacare penalties/taxes except by withholding monies from tax refunds (part of the Reid/Pelosi game of buying votes) - just throw the IRS warning/pleading letters in the round file. Does anybody think that people who want to avoid such taxes (most notably the young invincibles) will not be taking crash courses in tax refund avoidance strategies (hint - don't overpay estimated tax). Unless the electorate stacks Congress with enough votes to add ongoing funding for Obamacare's bloated bureaucracy and subsides the economic leg of Obamacare will crumble under its own weight sooner rather than later. Which leads to the articles final conclusion - Vote.

Edited by colion, 08 May 2014 - 04:25 PM.


#4 *JB*

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 01:51 AM

... the claim here is that "the harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers" - just what rates or taxes have gone up as a result of these measures.


Surely you jest and know that the official word is that Obamacare is paid for in part through collected taxes and penalties (i.e., taxes). What is one of the major expenses of Obamacare? Think, for example, bureaucrats and subsidies. So, if Obama waves a magic wand and eliminates the need for a major source of such revenues to be delayed while at the same time bureaucrats reproduce like rabbits and subsidies are being granted to a large number of people (larger than expected) than who pays? You for one. But since this is not specifically aimed at you and you only feel 'generalized collateral' damage you are not deemed to have standing. However, you will pay for that now or later by increased taxes and/or debt. But its for a good cause. This is pretty serious stuff that is lost on many who can't see beyond their political horizon. But obviously many do see and shamefully contribute to Obamacare's negative polls.

Of course, the whole economic underpinning of Obamacare is a farce. The word is out that the IRS was specifically not empowered under the law to collect Obamacare penalties/taxes except by withholding monies from tax refunds (part of the Reid/Pelosi game of buying votes) - just throw the IRS warning/pleading letters in the round file. Does anybody think that people who want to avoid such taxes (most notably the young invincibles) will not be taking crash courses in tax refund avoidance strategies (hint - don't overpay estimated tax). Unless the electorate stacks Congress with enough votes to add ongoing funding for Obamacare's bloated bureaucracy and subsides the economic leg of Obamacare will crumble under its own weight sooner rather than later. Which leads to the articles final conclusion - Vote.


for Salsabob's edification --

BTW -- partial list

$123 Billion: Surtax on Investment Income (Takes effect Jan. 2013): A new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income:
List of Obamacare Tax Hikes: Listed by Size of Tax Hike

(from Congressional web page, no copyright)

WASHINGTON, DC -- Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses. Arranged by their respective sizes according to CBO scores, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, their effective dates, and where to find them in the bill.


Capital Gains

Dividends

Other*

2012

15%

15%

35%

2013+

23.8%

43.4%

43.4%


*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens. (Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93)

$86 Billion: Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Current law and changes:



First $200,000
($250,000 Married)
Employer/Employee

All Remaining Wages
Employer/Employee

Current Law

1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed

1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed

Obamacare Tax Hike

1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed

1.45%/2.35%
3.8% self-employed

$65 Billion: Individual Mandate Excise Tax and Employer Mandate Tax (Both taxes take effect Jan. 2014):

Individual: Anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance as defined by Obama-appointed HHS bureaucrats must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following



1 Adult

2 Adults

3+ Adults

2014

1% AGI/$95

1% AGI/$190

1% AGI/$285

2015

2% AGI/$325

2% AGI/$650

2% AGI/$975

2016 +

2.5% AGI/$695

2.5% AGI/$1390

2.5% AGI/$2085


Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS).

Employer: If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer). Bill: PPACA; Page: 345-346

(Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion)

$60.1 Billion: Tax on Health Insurers (Takes effect Jan. 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. Phases in gradually until 2018. Fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,986-1,993

$32 Billion: Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans (Takes effect Jan. 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). Higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family) for early retirees and high-risk professions. CPI +1 percentage point indexed. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,941-1,956

$23.6 Billion: “Black liquor” tax hike (Took effect in 2010) This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 105

$22.2 Billion: Tax on Innovator Drug Companies (Took effect in 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,971-1,980

$20 Billion: Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exempts items retailing for <$100. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,980-1,986

$15.2 Billion: High Medical Bills Tax (Takes effect Jan 1. 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994-1,995

$13.2 Billion: Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax” (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Indexed to inflation after 2013. There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,388-2,389

$5 Billion: Medicine Cabinet Tax (Took effect Jan. 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957-1,959

$4.5 Billion: Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D (Takes effect Jan. 2013) Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994

$4.5 Billion: Codification of the “economic substance doctrine” (Took effect in 2010): This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113

$2.7 Billion: Tax on Indoor Tanning Services (Took effect July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,397-2,399

$1.4 Billion: HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike (Took effect Jan. 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,959

$0.6 Billion: $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,995-2,000

$0.4 Billion: Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike (Took effect in 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,004

$ Negligible: Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals (Took effect in 2010): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,961-1,971

$ Negligible: Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Took effect in Jan. 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957

Read more: http://www.atr.org/f...0#ixzz1zTXuZUYl
"Don't think...LOOK!"
Carl Swenlin, founder of Decision Point and original Fearless Forecasters board.

#5 salsabob

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:00 AM

... the claim here is that "the harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers" - just what rates or taxes have gone up as a result of these measures.


Surely you jest and know that the official word is that Obamacare is paid for in part through collected taxes and penalties (i.e., taxes). What is one of the major expenses of Obamacare? Think, for example, bureaucrats and subsidies. So, if Obama waves a magic wand and eliminates the need for a major source of such revenues to be delayed while at the same time bureaucrats reproduce like rabbits and subsidies are being granted to a large number of people (larger than expected) than who pays? You for one. But since this is not specifically aimed at you and you only feel 'generalized collateral' damage you are not deemed to have standing. However, you will pay for that now or later by increased taxes and/or debt. But its for a good cause. This is pretty serious stuff that is lost on many who can't see beyond their political horizon. But obviously many do see and shamefully contribute to Obamacare's negative polls.[


I asked the simple question: what tax or insurance rate was increased as a result of Obama's executive action regarding the ACA? All you gave me is speculation. :blink:

Of course, the whole economic underpinning of Obamacare is a farce. The word is out that the IRS was specifically not empowered under the law to collect Obamacare penalties/taxes except by withholding monies from tax refunds (part of the Reid/Pelosi game of buying votes) - just throw the IRS warning/pleading letters in the round file. Does anybody think that people who want to avoid such taxes (most notably the young invincibles) will not be taking crash courses in tax refund avoidance strategies (hint - don't overpay estimated tax). Unless the electorate stacks Congress with enough votes to add ongoing funding for Obamacare's bloated bureaucracy and subsides the economic leg of Obamacare will crumble under its own weight sooner rather than later. Which leads to the articles final conclusion - Vote.


The one fact you offer here is that the enforcement mechanism is rather weak for the individual mandate [just note that one will have to avoid tax withholding on EVERY financial transaction one undertakes for the REST OF THEIR LIVES - try to put your mind around how limiting that scenario offers for a financial future. <_<

But putting that aside; what does the lack of enforcement have to do with the original question of what taxes/rates have been increased as a result of executive actions? To save you some time and brain cell activity, the answer is absolutely nothing.

By the way, I put the "Obamacare will crumble under its own weight" in the same file as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and US Treasuries will crumble - the file is labeled "examples of ignorance of how our monetary system actually works." Don't feel alone, I'm pretty sure 99% of people have no clue.

You are right, however, about how voting can make all those things crumble; we nearly had that with the recent debt ceiling idiocy - fortunately, the morons are still in the minority in this country :cheer: --- so far.
John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?

#6 salsabob

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 09:09 AM

... the claim here is that "the harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers" - just what rates or taxes have gone up as a result of these measures.


Surely you jest and know that the official word is that Obamacare is paid for in part through collected taxes and penalties (i.e., taxes). What is one of the major expenses of Obamacare? Think, for example, bureaucrats and subsidies. So, if Obama waves a magic wand and eliminates the need for a major source of such revenues to be delayed while at the same time bureaucrats reproduce like rabbits and subsidies are being granted to a large number of people (larger than expected) than who pays? You for one. But since this is not specifically aimed at you and you only feel 'generalized collateral' damage you are not deemed to have standing. However, you will pay for that now or later by increased taxes and/or debt. But its for a good cause. This is pretty serious stuff that is lost on many who can't see beyond their political horizon. But obviously many do see and shamefully contribute to Obamacare's negative polls.

Of course, the whole economic underpinning of Obamacare is a farce. The word is out that the IRS was specifically not empowered under the law to collect Obamacare penalties/taxes except by withholding monies from tax refunds (part of the Reid/Pelosi game of buying votes) - just throw the IRS warning/pleading letters in the round file. Does anybody think that people who want to avoid such taxes (most notably the young invincibles) will not be taking crash courses in tax refund avoidance strategies (hint - don't overpay estimated tax). Unless the electorate stacks Congress with enough votes to add ongoing funding for Obamacare's bloated bureaucracy and subsides the economic leg of Obamacare will crumble under its own weight sooner rather than later. Which leads to the articles final conclusion - Vote.


for Salsabob's edification --

BTW -- partial list

$123 Billion: Surtax on Investment Income (Takes effect Jan. 2013): A new, 3.8 percent surtax on investment income earned in households making at least $250,000 ($200,000 single). This would result in the following top tax rates on investment income:
List of Obamacare Tax Hikes: Listed by Size of Tax Hike

(from Congressional web page, no copyright)

WASHINGTON, DC -- Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses. Arranged by their respective sizes according to CBO scores, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, their effective dates, and where to find them in the bill.


Capital Gains

Dividends

Other*

2012

15%

15%

35%

2013+

23.8%

43.4%

43.4%


*Other unearned income includes (for surtax purposes) gross income from interest, annuities, royalties, net rents, and passive income in partnerships and Subchapter-S corporations. It does not include municipal bond interest or life insurance proceeds, since those do not add to gross income. It does not include active trade or business income, fair market value sales of ownership in pass-through entities, or distributions from retirement plans. The 3.8% surtax does not apply to non-resident aliens. (Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 87-93)

$86 Billion: Hike in Medicare Payroll Tax (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Current law and changes:



First $200,000
($250,000 Married)
Employer/Employee

All Remaining Wages
Employer/Employee

Current Law

1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed

1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed

Obamacare Tax Hike

1.45%/1.45%
2.9% self-employed

1.45%/2.35%
3.8% self-employed

$65 Billion: Individual Mandate Excise Tax and Employer Mandate Tax (Both taxes take effect Jan. 2014):

Individual: Anyone not buying “qualifying” health insurance as defined by Obama-appointed HHS bureaucrats must pay an income surtax according to the higher of the following



1 Adult

2 Adults

3+ Adults

2014

1% AGI/$95

1% AGI/$190

1% AGI/$285

2015

2% AGI/$325

2% AGI/$650

2% AGI/$975

2016 +

2.5% AGI/$695

2.5% AGI/$1390

2.5% AGI/$2085


Exemptions for religious objectors, undocumented immigrants, prisoners, those earning less than the poverty line, members of Indian tribes, and hardship cases (determined by HHS).

Employer: If an employer does not offer health coverage, and at least one employee qualifies for a health tax credit, the employer must pay an additional non-deductible tax of $2000 for all full-time employees. Applies to all employers with 50 or more employees. If any employee actually receives coverage through the exchange, the penalty on the employer for that employee rises to $3000. If the employer requires a waiting period to enroll in coverage of 30-60 days, there is a $400 tax per employee ($600 if the period is 60 days or longer). Bill: PPACA; Page: 345-346

(Combined score of individual and employer mandate tax penalty: $65 billion)

$60.1 Billion: Tax on Health Insurers (Takes effect Jan. 2014): Annual tax on the industry imposed relative to health insurance premiums collected that year. Phases in gradually until 2018. Fully-imposed on firms with $50 million in profits. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,986-1,993

$32 Billion: Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans (Takes effect Jan. 2018): Starting in 2018, new 40 percent excise tax on “Cadillac” health insurance plans ($10,200 single/$27,500 family). Higher threshold ($11,500 single/$29,450 family) for early retirees and high-risk professions. CPI +1 percentage point indexed. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,941-1,956

$23.6 Billion: “Black liquor” tax hike (Took effect in 2010) This is a tax increase on a type of bio-fuel. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 105

$22.2 Billion: Tax on Innovator Drug Companies (Took effect in 2010): $2.3 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to share of sales made that year. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,971-1,980

$20 Billion: Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Medical device manufacturers employ 360,000 people in 6000 plants across the country. This law imposes a new 2.3% excise tax. Exempts items retailing for <$100. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,980-1,986

$15.2 Billion: High Medical Bills Tax (Takes effect Jan 1. 2013): Currently, those facing high medical expenses are allowed a deduction for medical expenses to the extent that those expenses exceed 7.5 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI). The new provision imposes a threshold of 10 percent of AGI. Waived for 65+ taxpayers in 2013-2016 only. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994-1,995

$13.2 Billion: Flexible Spending Account Cap – aka “Special Needs Kids Tax” (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Imposes cap on FSAs of $2500 (now unlimited). Indexed to inflation after 2013. There is one group of FSA owners for whom this new cap will be particularly cruel and onerous: parents of special needs children. There are thousands of families with special needs children in the United States, and many of them use FSAs to pay for special needs education. Tuition rates at one leading school that teaches special needs children in Washington, D.C. (National Child Research Center) can easily exceed $14,000 per year. Under tax rules, FSA dollars can be used to pay for this type of special needs education. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,388-2,389

$5 Billion: Medicine Cabinet Tax (Took effect Jan. 2011): Americans no longer able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin). Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957-1,959

$4.5 Billion: Elimination of tax deduction for employer-provided retirement Rx drug coverage in coordination with Medicare Part D (Takes effect Jan. 2013) Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,994

$4.5 Billion: Codification of the “economic substance doctrine” (Took effect in 2010): This provision allows the IRS to disallow completely-legal tax deductions and other legal tax-minimizing plans just because the IRS deems that the action lacks “substance” and is merely intended to reduce taxes owed. Bill: Reconciliation Act; Page: 108-113

$2.7 Billion: Tax on Indoor Tanning Services (Took effect July 1, 2010): New 10 percent excise tax on Americans using indoor tanning salons. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,397-2,399

$1.4 Billion: HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike (Took effect Jan. 2011): Increases additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,959

$0.6 Billion: $500,000 Annual Executive Compensation Limit for Health Insurance Executives (Takes effect Jan. 2013): Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,995-2,000

$0.4 Billion: Blue Cross/Blue Shield Tax Hike (Took effect in 2010): The special tax deduction in current law for Blue Cross/Blue Shield companies would only be allowed if 85 percent or more of premium revenues are spent on clinical services. Bill: PPACA; Page: 2,004

$ Negligible: Excise Tax on Charitable Hospitals (Took effect in 2010): $50,000 per hospital if they fail to meet new "community health assessment needs," "financial assistance," and "billing and collection" rules set by HHS. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,961-1,971

$ Negligible: Employer Reporting of Insurance on W-2 (Took effect in Jan. 2012): Preamble to taxing health benefits on individual tax returns. Bill: PPACA; Page: 1,957

Read more: http://www.atr.org/f...0#ixzz1zTXuZUYl


Ah, JB, the issue was what Obama executive actions, post-ACA, have resulted in a tax or rate increase; you instead have listed what was in the ACA itself (a number of which you have posted bogus misleading bumper sticker excerpts - but that's a different story).

Perhaps re-read the thread.... and try for comprehension this time? :yes:
John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?

#7 colion

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Posted 10 May 2014 - 02:07 PM

... the claim here is that "the harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers" - just what rates or taxes have gone up as a result of these measures.

Surely you jest and know that the official word is that Obamacare is paid for in part through collected taxes and penalties (i.e., taxes). What is one of the major expenses of Obamacare? Think, for example, bureaucrats and subsidies. So, if Obama waves a magic wand and eliminates the need for a major source of such revenues to be delayed while at the same time bureaucrats reproduce like rabbits and subsidies are being granted to a large number of people (larger than expected) than who pays? You for one. But since this is not specifically aimed at you and you only feel 'generalized collateral' damage you are not deemed to have standing. However, you will pay for that now or later by increased taxes and/or debt. But its for a good cause. This is pretty serious stuff that is lost on many who can't see beyond their political horizon. But obviously many do see and shamefully contribute to Obamacare's negative polls.[

I asked the simple question: what tax or insurance rate was increased as a result of Obama's executive action regarding the ACA? All you gave me is speculation.


Your question was answered without speculation and without the narrowness of your definition but I'll take a second pass.

Whatever political benefit the Administration accrues by the mandate delays comes at taxpayer expense (without speculation) due to increased cost of premiums, subsidies, increased government expenditures for the bureaucracy, payments to insurers, etc. and decreased revenues. Such costs due to Obama's actions are by definition an indirect tax on people although they are not reported on a 1040 form as a direct tax - but still a tax. For example, the employer mandate was suppose to generate $10 billion in the form of penalties that employers not offering coverage would have paid in 2014. Adding to that is the fact that many workers whose employers decided not to offer coverage in 2014 now receive federal subsidies to buy individual insurance policies. Add in the effect of delaying the individual mandate, the cost of changing policies on the fly, etc. and one is talking about some real money. These costs are an indirect tax which pop up as increased insurance premiums, increased out-of-pocket expenses, etc. and national debt. Not unlike the 'hidden' tax of inflation Obama's actions result in a clear cut increase in costs that constitute an indirect tax that is not reported as a direct tax on 1040s. It is not speculation to note that these costs are being reflected in actual increased costs for insurance and medical care and must also translate into increased debt and/or future income tax increase.

Of course, the whole economic underpinning of Obamacare is a farce. The word is out that the IRS was specifically not empowered under the law to collect Obamacare penalties/taxes except by withholding monies from tax refunds (part of the Reid/Pelosi game of buying votes) - just throw the IRS warning/pleading letters in the round file. Does anybody think that people who want to avoid such taxes (most notably the young invincibles) will not be taking crash courses in tax refund avoidance strategies (hint - don't overpay estimated tax). Unless the electorate stacks Congress with enough votes to add ongoing funding for Obamacare's bloated bureaucracy and subsides the economic leg of Obamacare will crumble under its own weight sooner rather than later. Which leads to the articles final conclusion - Vote.

The one fact you offer here is that the enforcement mechanism is rather weak for the individual mandate [just note that one will have to avoid tax withholding on EVERY financial transaction one undertakes for the REST OF THEIR LIVES - try to put your mind around how limiting that scenario offers for a financial future. <_< But putting that aside; what does the lack of enforcement have to do with the original question of what taxes/rates have been increased as a result of executive actions? To save you some time and brain cell activity, the answer is absolutely nothing. By the way, I put the "Obamacare will crumble under its own weight" in the same file as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and US Treasuries will crumble - the file is labeled "examples of ignorance of how our monetary system actually works." Don't feel alone, I'm pretty sure 99% of people have no clue. You are right, however, about how voting can make all those things crumble; we nearly had that with the recent debt ceiling idiocy - fortunately, the morons are still in the minority in this country :cheer: --- so far.



Wrong. The law is very clear. The IRS is only empowered to withhold monies from tax refunds (no garnish wages, liens on property, etc. unlike other tax collections) for nonpayment of Obamacare taxes (i.e., penalties) . So one simply has to avoid overpaying estimated taxes and not be concerned about "EVERY financial transaction ... for the REST OF THEIR LIVES". You might, perhaps, think that this is insane but then consider the idiots who wrote and approved the law. But take heart. Obamacare's negative polls are pointing at the very least to significant change that will hollow it out and open the door to meaningful health care reform. Given the rapid growth in HSA/HRA I wouldn't be surprised if have a national program based on that model as so many actuaries have been advocating for ages.




#8 salsabob

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:48 AM

... the claim here is that "the harm is generalized, diffused to premium ratepayers or taxpayers" - just what rates or taxes have gone up as a result of these measures.

Surely you jest and know that the official word is that Obamacare is paid for in part through collected taxes and penalties (i.e., taxes). What is one of the major expenses of Obamacare? Think, for example, bureaucrats and subsidies. So, if Obama waves a magic wand and eliminates the need for a major source of such revenues to be delayed while at the same time bureaucrats reproduce like rabbits and subsidies are being granted to a large number of people (larger than expected) than who pays? You for one. But since this is not specifically aimed at you and you only feel 'generalized collateral' damage you are not deemed to have standing. However, you will pay for that now or later by increased taxes and/or debt. But its for a good cause. This is pretty serious stuff that is lost on many who can't see beyond their political horizon. But obviously many do see and shamefully contribute to Obamacare's negative polls.[

I asked the simple question: what tax or insurance rate was increased as a result of Obama's executive action regarding the ACA? All you gave me is speculation.


Your question was answered without speculation and without the narrowness of your definition but I'll take a second pass.

Whatever political benefit the Administration accrues by the mandate delays comes at taxpayer expense (without speculation) due to increased cost of premiums, subsidies, increased government expenditures for the bureaucracy, payments to insurers, etc. and decreased revenues. Such costs due to Obama's actions are by definition an indirect tax on people although they are not reported on a 1040 form as a direct tax - but still a tax. For example, the employer mandate was suppose to generate $10 billion in the form of penalties that employers not offering coverage would have paid in 2014. Adding to that is the fact that many workers whose employers decided not to offer coverage in 2014 now receive federal subsidies to buy individual insurance policies. Add in the effect of delaying the individual mandate, the cost of changing policies on the fly, etc. and one is talking about some real money. These costs are an indirect tax which pop up as increased insurance premiums, increased out-of-pocket expenses, etc. and national debt. Not unlike the 'hidden' tax of inflation Obama's actions result in a clear cut increase in costs that constitute an indirect tax that is not reported as a direct tax on 1040s. It is not speculation to note that these costs are being reflected in actual increased costs for insurance and medical care and must also translate into increased debt and/or future income tax increase.

Of course, the whole economic underpinning of Obamacare is a farce. The word is out that the IRS was specifically not empowered under the law to collect Obamacare penalties/taxes except by withholding monies from tax refunds (part of the Reid/Pelosi game of buying votes) - just throw the IRS warning/pleading letters in the round file. Does anybody think that people who want to avoid such taxes (most notably the young invincibles) will not be taking crash courses in tax refund avoidance strategies (hint - don't overpay estimated tax). Unless the electorate stacks Congress with enough votes to add ongoing funding for Obamacare's bloated bureaucracy and subsides the economic leg of Obamacare will crumble under its own weight sooner rather than later. Which leads to the articles final conclusion - Vote.

The one fact you offer here is that the enforcement mechanism is rather weak for the individual mandate [just note that one will have to avoid tax withholding on EVERY financial transaction one undertakes for the REST OF THEIR LIVES - try to put your mind around how limiting that scenario offers for a financial future. <_< But putting that aside; what does the lack of enforcement have to do with the original question of what taxes/rates have been increased as a result of executive actions? To save you some time and brain cell activity, the answer is absolutely nothing. By the way, I put the "Obamacare will crumble under its own weight" in the same file as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and US Treasuries will crumble - the file is labeled "examples of ignorance of how our monetary system actually works." Don't feel alone, I'm pretty sure 99% of people have no clue. You are right, however, about how voting can make all those things crumble; we nearly had that with the recent debt ceiling idiocy - fortunately, the morons are still in the minority in this country :cheer: --- so far.



Wrong. The law is very clear. The IRS is only empowered to withhold monies from tax refunds (no garnish wages, liens on property, etc. unlike other tax collections) for nonpayment of Obamacare taxes (i.e., penalties) . So one simply has to avoid overpaying estimated taxes and not be concerned about "EVERY financial transaction ... for the REST OF THEIR LIVES". You might, perhaps, think that this is insane but then consider the idiots who wrote and approved the law. But take heart. Obamacare's negative polls are pointing at the very least to significant change that will hollow it out and open the door to meaningful health care reform. Given the rapid growth in HSA/HRA I wouldn't be surprised if have a national program based on that model as so many actuaries have been advocating for ages.




You're still having some reading comprehension problems. There are many financial transactions subject to tax withholding regardless of whether a refund is likely or not. And, they add up as life goes by and becomes more financially complicated. One is going to have to avoid any withholding for life? I guess someone dumb enough to try to go through life without health insurance might believe avoiding all financial transactions that come with tax withholding would be a fruitful endeavor as well. :rolleyes:

Then there's the whole thing about missing the emergency room for the rest of one's life - the consequences of answering "no" to that always asked question, "do you have insurance/" is going to be increasingly different than what it has been - "freeloader" is likely going to be uttered pretty quickly and as that becomes the rule, do you really believe the IRS will be allowed to remain relatively toothless on this? You might want to spend some time looking at the history of similar fates of the various payroll taxes.

I also think you might be a little out of touch with most of the millions of people that benefit from Obamacare if you think HSA/HRA have or will have relevance to them in their lives. Pretty par for the course - nearly all critics of the ACA have Medicaid, employer-based, or some other heavily govt-subsidized insurance scheme like HSA/HRA - the word "hypocrite" is usually applicable. <_<

Edited by salsabob, 15 May 2014 - 09:49 AM.

John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?

#9 colion

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:58 PM

You're still having some reading comprehension problems. There are many financial transactions subject to tax withholding regardless of whether a refund is likely or not. And, they add up as life goes by and becomes more financially complicated. One is going to have to avoid any withholding for life? I guess someone dumb enough to try to go through life without health insurance might believe avoiding all financial transactions that come with tax withholding would be a fruitful endeavor as well. :rolleyes:


Of course there are tax withholdings regardless of whether or not a refund is likely. However, you are seriously misguided and misinformed if you believe that because there are tax withholdings that one cannot avoid a tax refund. Controlling the estimated tax paid so that a refund is not triggered is not rocket science. Learn some elementary accounting and arithmetic you will see the light.

do you really believe the IRS will be allowed to remain relatively toothless on this?


Yes, for the foreseeable future. It will take a significant shift in the political world to reverse that and that is nowhere on the horizon. In fact, the longer the IRS remains impotent the higher is the probability of major reform and transformation from Obamacare to a rational economically sound solution.

I also think you might be a little out of touch with most of the millions of people that benefit from Obamacare if you think HSA/HRA have or will have relevance to them in their lives. Pretty par for the course - nearly all critics of the ACA have Medicaid, employer-based, or some other heavily govt-subsidized insurance scheme like HSA/HRA - the word "hypocrite" is usually applicable. <_<



Yes, hypocrite applies to those who are ignorant of the subject or blinded by ideology. Subsidies are a creature of Obamacare which is just another 'wealth distribution' mechanism as Obama explained to Joe the Plumber. The ones getting subsidies under Obamacare are not complaining. It is only the majority who are left to pick up the bill who are screaming the loudest and by your definition are hypocrites which is nonsense. HSA/HRA were doing very well before Obamacare without subsidies, growing by a factor of 15 in about 8 years and an estimated 50MM will have HSAs by 2020 with assets that have grown at twice that rate and now total about $3B. And they continue to do well under Obamacare except now subsidies are granted where none were needed before. Why the growth? Why do over 1/2 of major corporations offer these vehicles? Simple. In contrast to Obamacare this approach has been found by Rand and university studies to reduce medical costs by about 20% without adversely affecting health. A consumer based system that does what it is supposed to do. With any luck this will be the basis for a national model that will phase in as Obamacare is phased out. Absent a major political shift I suspect something along these lines will occur - sooner rather than later - putting the nation on a sustainable course which it is clearly not on now.

#10 stocks

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Posted 05 June 2014 - 05:54 AM

You gotta have standing

Why President Obama Can Break The Law With Impunity


When the president disregards the law

The president has a serious problem with competence and with fidelity to his oath. In one week, he has alienated and demoralized much of the intelligence community by revealing the true name of one of them and by releasing their worst nightmare back into the theater of Middle East warfare. He has also flagrantly failed to enforce federal law by materially aiding a non-state terrorist group condemned by American law. This is almost inconceivable in an American president.
Yet it is almost predictable with this president.

In our Orwellian post-Sept. 11 world, Congress thinks it can alter basic constitutional principles, and the president thinks he can enforce only the laws he likes. Did we break away from a king, who thought his powers were given to him by God, 240 years ago only to elect a president who behaves like a king? Thomas Jefferson saw this coming in his final years, when he argued that an elected despot is not the government we fought for.

It surely is not the government Jefferson fought for; but today, it is the government we have.



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UNTIL the status quo self-destructs from its own corruption, and the reformers are free to build on its ashes.