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#31 RagingSpartan

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 06:02 PM

Tria. This will pass. tough measures for sure but their are good things in this deal for Greece.
The flattening of debt payments is huge. There will be no more funding issues going forward and NO MORE bailouts.
This is a deal to end all deals.
The black swan is will the people revolt or not.


Tria, a straw poll I conducted among my Greek friends has resulted in an overwhelming oxi to the new demands and they would have been Nai voters had they been in Greece a week ago. I think the new demands will not be accepted because it represents complete humiliation of Greece. I can understand the psychology when one gives in only to see more humiliating demands. The new demands will not fly with syriza and given that those I polled were posak, potami and nd voters, these new demands may not fly with opposition parties either. We could see total failure here and those Greeks I polled even suggested to do whatever it takes to hurt EU and Germany in particular (though not sure what can be done). Extraordinary sentiment here.

Same view/feelings as mine csw. The Greek parliament's united NAI 251/300 votes may turn into an OXI even among the previously conservative voting people, never mind the public sector employees, pentioners, trade unions and antiauthoritarians.
Tsipras has a big problem imlementing what is being asked for which is an anti-syriza ultimatum in fact.
Any Greek coalition Gov. may have the same problem. Chaos.......
Public sector reformation is/was urgently needed however as well as fighting bureaucracy, corruption, tax evasion etc., etc.



#32 tria

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 06:09 PM

Group polarization my friend, scares me to death. I know what is good but try to explain this to a redundant and hungry employee, is another matter.
https://en.wikipedia...up_polarization

Tria. This will pass. tough measures for sure but their are good things in this deal for Greece.
The flattening of debt payments is huge. There will be no more funding issues going forward and NO MORE bailouts.
This is a deal to end all deals.
The black swan is will the people revolt or not.


Tria, a straw poll I conducted among my Greek friends has resulted in an overwhelming oxi to the new demands and they would have been Nai voters had they been in Greece a week ago. I think the new demands will not be accepted because it represents complete humiliation of Greece. I can understand the psychology when one gives in only to see more humiliating demands. The new demands will not fly with syriza and given that those I polled were posak, potami and nd voters, these new demands may not fly with opposition parties either. We could see total failure here and those Greeks I polled even suggested to do whatever it takes to hurt EU and Germany in particular (though not sure what can be done). Extraordinary sentiment here.

Same view/feelings as mine csw. The Greek parliament's united NAI 251/300 votes may turn into an OXI even among the previously conservative voting people, never mind the public sector employees, pentioners, trade unions and antiauthoritarians.
Tsipras has a big problem imlementing what is being asked for which is an anti-syriza ultimatum in fact.
Any Greek coalition Gov. may have the same problem. Chaos.......
Public sector reformation is/was urgently needed however as well as fighting bureaucracy, corruption, tax evasion etc., etc.


Edited by tria, 12 July 2015 - 06:14 PM.

In the world of 0 and 1: "austerity" is the right thing to SAY; "spent more, print more" is the right thing to DO.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
~ Wayne Gretzky


#33 RagingSpartan

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 06:14 PM

Tria, the risk is def there but if the social fabric can hold together over the next 3 years then Greece will have enormous upside.
Greece needs strong leadership now. I'm very curious to see where Tsipras ends up. Moments like this shape a man.
This will either change him and his policies in a good way and help keeps greeks together or he proves to be a typical socialist leader and falls.



Group polarization
https://en.wikipedia...up_polarization

Tria. This will pass. tough measures for sure but their are good things in this deal for Greece.
The flattening of debt payments is huge. There will be no more funding issues going forward and NO MORE bailouts.
This is a deal to end all deals.
The black swan is will the people revolt or not.


Tria, a straw poll I conducted among my Greek friends has resulted in an overwhelming oxi to the new demands and they would have been Nai voters had they been in Greece a week ago. I think the new demands will not be accepted because it represents complete humiliation of Greece. I can understand the psychology when one gives in only to see more humiliating demands. The new demands will not fly with syriza and given that those I polled were posak, potami and nd voters, these new demands may not fly with opposition parties either. We could see total failure here and those Greeks I polled even suggested to do whatever it takes to hurt EU and Germany in particular (though not sure what can be done). Extraordinary sentiment here.

Same view/feelings as mine csw. The Greek parliament's united NAI 251/300 votes may turn into an OXI even among the previously conservative voting people, never mind the public sector employees, pentioners, trade unions and antiauthoritarians.
Tsipras has a big problem imlementing what is being asked for which is an anti-syriza ultimatum in fact.
Any Greek coalition Gov. may have the same problem. Chaos.......
Public sector reformation is/was urgently needed however as well as fighting bureaucracy, corruption, tax evasion etc., etc.



#34 tria

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 06:20 PM

Tria, a straw poll I conducted among my Greek friends has resulted in an overwhelming oxi to the new demands and they would have been Nai voters had they been in Greece a week ago. I think the new demands will not be accepted because it represents complete humiliation of Greece. I can understand the psychology when one gives in only to see more humiliating demands. The new demands will not fly with syriza and given that those I polled were posak, potami and nd voters, these new demands may not fly with opposition parties either. We could see total failure here and those Greeks I polled even suggested to do whatever it takes to hurt EU and Germany in particular (though not sure what can be done). Extraordinary sentiment here.


But who is asking citizens? Now it's all up to the parliament.

I don't know where you are residing AA but peaceful or otherwise strikes have brought Greek Goverments down in the past and have crippled the Greek economy as well.

In the world of 0 and 1: "austerity" is the right thing to SAY; "spent more, print more" is the right thing to DO.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
~ Wayne Gretzky


#35 An Ant

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 07:12 PM

They took a break to consult technocrats to overcome a problem.
The sumitt will probably last a few more hours, a long night for all Eurozone leaders.
Some progress was announced.

A 5-year suffering that was starting to bring some good results last fall will continue, and above all, all Greek credibility was lost in the lat 6 months.

The recession will last for 2 years at least.

HOPE I AM WRONG on things turning ugly/violent next week.


Who are they?
I thought Eurogroup (or everyone other than Greece) is resting waiting for Greece to make next move.
Hopefully you are resting as well.

#36 tria

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Posted 13 July 2015 - 01:53 AM

They took a break to consult technocrats to overcome a problem.
The sumitt will probably last a few more hours, a long night for all Eurozone leaders.
Some progress was announced.

A 5-year suffering that was starting to bring some good results last fall will continue, and above all, all Greek credibility was lost in the lat 6 months.

The recession will last for 2 years at least.

HOPE I AM WRONG on things turning ugly/violent next week.


Who are they?
I thought Eurogroup (or everyone other than Greece) is resting waiting for Greece to make next move.
Hopefully you are resting as well.

Not so An Ant,
A Eurozone State Leaders sumitt, is different to a Eurogroup Fin. Min. meeting.
Nobobody is waiting for any Greek next move but for further negotiations. The Eurozone sumitt participants had 3 breaks and for further (4 main members) consultations and a rest.
The big Countries head of State, and mainly Germany's Chancellor Merkel, are waiting for their financial 'Coup d'état' to be accepted by Greek PM Tsipras and Greece to become a humiliated Eurozone bankrupt 'financial Colony'.
An explosive mixture that could lead to a further popularity rise, of the Neo-Nazi 'Golden Dawn' Party and of Nationalist Right & Left parties in general with different ideologies and goals, and to an extremely political polarization of the Greek population. Prepare to hear the word 'traitor' many times.

In the world of 0 and 1: "austerity" is the right thing to SAY; "spent more, print more" is the right thing to DO.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."
~ Wayne Gretzky