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unwarranted deaths


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#1 dasein

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Posted 20 November 2015 - 09:06 PM

reading Manzoni's "betrothed" talking about the depopulation of the Duchy of Milan by war and pestilence - the paid European mercenaries that waged the King's war at the expense of peasants lives and who brought the plague with them. incredible that more than 3/4s of the population of the Milan Duchy - 100s of thousands - died in that time - it was under Spanish Rule, but the ruling class by his account was as terroristic as those we despise today, except they did it against "their own country". Incredible that by superstitious overreaction innocent people were killed by their own neighbors as the terror made people irrational and blaming shadows. I think it is good to take a look at history at times to put things in perspective - ours is a glorious age of bounty for the ordinary person, one that required a different mindset of values to get it started. thanks
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#2 gannman

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:12 AM

yes i love history also. digging into things i have found that we never receive an honest background about history. the victors write it and they always paint themselves as the good guys ha ha but it is nice to know from what i see no one group should put on airs about anything all have done some terrible things
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#3 fib_1618

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 08:01 AM

I think it is good to take a look at history at times to put things in perspective

Yes, there have been many religious and political wars throughout human history...even in novels.

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#4 Dex

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 11:54 AM

I think it is good to take a look at history at times to put things in perspective - ours is a glorious age of bounty for the ordinary person, one that required a different mindset of values to get it started.

thanks


The age of bounty which you mention really is only since the industrial revolution -200 years- and that only for western Europe and the USA. The mass of the world 'age of bounty' began after WWII and even then not most of the world. China had 80% peasants in the the '80s

Hitler, Stalin, Mau, Pol Pot, Husain, ISIS all happened recently.

There has not been a mindset change of values.

Given the right circumstances what you described could happen again.
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#5 Rogerdodger

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 12:22 PM

Don't forget the war which killed 1/4th of the entire world's population. As Archie Bunker said: "It was when Able's brother hit him in the head with a cane." :numchuk: :angel_not:

Edited by Rogerdodger, 21 November 2015 - 12:25 PM.


#6 dasein

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 04:27 PM

I think it is good to take a look at history at times to put things in perspective

Yes, there have been many religious and political wars throughout human history...even in novels.

Fib

yes, esp historical novels:) but the horror was not just that it was WAR but that it was carelessness and disregard for science (and humanistic ideas) in favor of prejudice and superstition that did enormous harm.
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#7 fib_1618

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 05:02 PM

I think it is good to take a look at history at times to put things in perspective

Yes, there have been many religious and political wars throughout human history...even in novels.

Fib

yes, esp historical novels:) but the horror was not just that it was WAR but that it was carelessness and disregard for science (and humanistic ideas) in favor of prejudice and superstition that did enormous harm.

Yes...and this was not an unusual occurrence during this period of "Renaissance".

But the main difference between now and then...the warriors wore uniforms, so you knew who your enemy was...they didn't hide in a crowd.

Not so today..though the idea of "prejudice and superstition that did enormous harm" does tend to rhyme with today's assassins.

As far as "historical" novels are concerned, I guess it all depends on which side your ancestors were on and their version of what happened...a hundred years can change perceptions.

Fib

Better to ignore me than abhor me.

“Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it” - Benjamin Franklin

 

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance" - George Bernard Shaw

 

Demagogue: A leader who makes use of popular prejudices, false claims and promises in order to gain power.

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#8 pdx5

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 07:38 PM

The so called fighters of today are the most cowardly ever. They sneak some explosive devices among civilians, and then run away! Boston Marathon bombing is a good example. These terrorists are cowards and scum.
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#9 Data

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 10:40 PM

Terrorism of this sort is not new. Israel celebrates one of the worst terrorist bombings with a 60th anniversary.

https://en.wikipedia...d_Hotel_bombing

The current conflict in the Middle East is modeled on a past US operation.

https://en.wikipedia...eration_Cyclone

#10 dasein

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 06:26 PM

As far as "historical" novels are concerned, I guess it all depends on which side your ancestors were on and their version of what happened...a hundred years can change perceptions.

Fib


huh? the 30 year war was one of the worst ever for most of europe - so many from every country in Europe died, it hardly matters who your ancestors are? there were really no winners - even if you are Asian or Eskimo - it still is a horrible loss to contemplate.

guerilla warfare is always called cowardly - in fact the old days when the infantry lined up and were destoyed by the new weapons - that was called cowardly too! I find it cowardly when fighters use civilians to be their human shields but cowardly and unfair are also at times perceptual.
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klh