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#1 tommyt

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:16 PM

Whats amazing to me is that the US is completely consumed with the idea of a rate rise. For months and months and months, this BS doesn't end. Markets have gone up a lot, and if its underpinnings are good, why would anyone be worried about 1-2 small rate rises??? I know there's the other part of a rise - the message, that rates have bottomed and gonna go up. Pullbacks are healthy, no? Is there something I'm completely missing? Raise the darn rates...they missed their window a year and a half ago, there is no "perfect" time....do it!


Edited by tommyt, 25 August 2016 - 11:18 PM.


#2 Rich C

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Posted 25 August 2016 - 11:41 PM

I agree tommyt.  I think the low rates are now doing more damage to the economy than good.  I don't think there is a business that would not start up today because rates are .25%, that would not start up even if short term rates were 1 or 1.5%.  I'm retired, and my inability to generate anything on money market funds leads to a "poorness effect", where we have changed behavior to eliminate spending that is not supported by income.  Eat out less often, eat in mid priced restaurants, don't fly on vacation.  If I had that income, I'd spend it, what would I save it for?  I sent a note like this to the Fed 4 quarters ago.


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#3 gannman

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 12:47 AM

i agree do it. its like dealing with a bully saying  im going to kick your but . well then kick my but lets get it out of the way and get on with life. we are talking about a measly quarter point if that tanks the economy 

 

then we dont have an economy just do it please do it stop talking about it 


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#4 NAV

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 01:01 AM

Whats amazing to me is that the US is completely consumed with the idea of a rate rise. For months and months and months, this BS doesn't end. Markets have gone up a lot, and if its underpinnings are good, why would anyone be worried about 1-2 small rate rises??? I know there's the other part of a rise - the message, that rates have bottomed and gonna go up. Pullbacks are healthy, no? Is there something I'm completely missing? Raise the darn rates...they missed their window a year and a half ago, there is no "perfect" time....do it!

 

Ain't gonna happen for a long long time. Even if they raise it will be symbolic. They will be forced to revert it again. 

 

Oh wait, what will ponzi schemes like Uber do, if the cheap money is gone ? Who will the VCs sell their fraudulent valuations to ? Sand hill road is as crooked as wall street is. 


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#5 dasein

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 07:38 AM

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100853442

 

old clip -


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#6 SemiBizz

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 08:07 AM

Who's afraid of the big bad little old grey-haired lady?

 

The F'eds are megalomaniac idiots that think they can unravel the laws of nature...

 

We'll all pay a price for their hubris...

 

Sad.


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#7 Rich C

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 09:33 AM

The impact of low rates is being felt across the economy.  Some are good, but some are definitely bad, such as this dismal earnings report from Met Life earlier this month:

 

 

Aug. 4, 2016

MetLife Inc., the largest U.S. life insurer, plans to cut expenses by 11 percent as low interest rates squeeze investment income.

The plan is to reduce annual costs by about $1 billion by the end of 2019 and will include job cuts, Chief Executive Officer Steve Kandarian said Thursday in a conference call without specifying how many workers will be dismissed by the New York-based company. The insurer had 69,000 employees at the end of 2015, according to its most recent annual report.

Central bank policies to suppress interest rates have reduced the income MetLife makes on a bond-dominated investment portfolio valued at more than $500 billion. The company said late Wednesday that second-quarter profit tumbled 90 percent to $110 million on a review of the prospects of a variable-annuity business that the CEO is seeking to exit as part of a proposed separation of a U.S. retail operation.

<snip>

MetLife dropped 9.5 percent to $39.54 at 4:15 p.m. in New York. The company has tumbled 18 percent this year, compared with the 5.9 percent gain of the S&P 500 Index. Prudential Financial Inc., the second-largest U.S. life insurer, fell 4.3 percent to $72.84. Lincoln National Corp. slumped 4 percent. Lincoln and Newark, New Jersey-based Prudential also reported declines in second-quarter profit after markets closed Wednesday.

The rate and economic environment is not conducive in allowing a company like Met to thrive,” David Havens, a debt analyst at Imperial Capital, said in a note. “It can certainly get by and remain a solid credit.”

 
Shifting Focus

The decision by U.K. voters to leave the European Union hurt insurers as financial markets responded to the referendum by pushing down interest rates in nations such as the U.S., Kandarian said. The company is projecting 10-year Treasury yields will increase to 4.25 percent by 2027, Chief Financial Officer John Hele said on the call. Thatoutlook is even worse than in November when the company said they won’t reach a “normalized” level of 4.5 percent for 11 years.

http://www.bloomberg...es-hurt-returns

 

I wonder how much of a "nudge" these CEOs are giving the Fed?  I suspect some phone calls have been made.

 

When you get down to it, Met Life built their business on an assumption (that was well founded in long term history) of a fair real return on long term bonds.  The Fed actions are so divergent from that assumption, and have endured for so long, that Met and other insurers may no longer have such a business model.  The Fed is destroying an important segment of corporate america.  I do not think such action is prudent.


Edited by Rich C, 26 August 2016 - 09:41 AM.

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#8 tommyt

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Posted 26 August 2016 - 10:15 AM

Rates have been held artificially down for a considerable amount of time...manipulating markets works in the shorter run, but almost always ends badly somewhere down the line. Its not different this time, its just still an uptrend. Look at the chart now, 34 days in a row without a 1% move...its "pegged" more than ever. I own premium for an increase in vol coming in Sept/Oct. Not a time to be complacent IMO:

 

http://stockcharts.c...id=p90468113894