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Sentiment - short term vs long term


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#1 NAV

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 08:09 AM

http://tradernav.blo...term-while.html

 

While the CNN fear and greed index can be a good indicator of short-term tops and bottoms, there is something more sinister at play here. Whenever the CNN fear and greed index goes to the extremes, a reflex bounce occurs to reset the sentiment. But that may not create the necessary conditions for a sustainable intermediate-term bottom.

 

Here's why. The investors intelligence survey recorded some extremes in spreads between the bears and bulls. The spread even exceeded the 1987 top. I posted this many times on traders-talk.com. But this was largely ignored by amateurs and professionals alike, as the parabolic move gave a false sense of security that nothing could go wrong. The amount of froth and participation required to create a parabolic advance, in itself is a huge measure of sentiment. You don't need any sentiment surveys. Just one look at Dec 2017 to Feb 2018 charts of Bitcoin, ICOs and the S&P/DOW/Nasdaq should sum it all up.

 

What differentiates a minor top from a major top is the quality of sentiment measured. Professional herding happens at major tops. Yes, the pros are humans too and they get caught up in the hysteria. Investors Intelligence is a measure of the professional sentiment. The professional advisors are caught on the wrong side of the market now. A simple bottom and quick move to new recovery highs will vindicate them easily, which is why we are not seeing a sustainable bottom yet. We need to see them throw in the towel before we see a major bottom.

 

Now coming back to the crypto world, this is some insanity that i have never witnessed in my 20 years of trading and my reading of 200 years of financial history. Bitcoin lost almost 60% in the correction from the top. The ICOs and other alt coins lost anywhere between 70 to 90% and yet the crowd keeps screaming HODL and ignore the FUD. When Nasdaq lost close to 90% in the fall of 2002 and early 2003, i remember the sentiment. People had got disgusted with tech and virtually everybody had thrown in the towel. Now could you imagine a new IPO offering in the fall of 2002 ? That is the exact equivalent of what we are seeing now in the ICO space. New ICOs are getting subscribed to, even after a 90% rout in the ICO space !. Now this is reflective of some rare financial excess that mankind has ever seen. There's so much money floating around the world, which is seeking yield, that nobody gives a darn about where they are investing !. Either that or we are witness to investing by some of the moronic folks that the world has ever seen, who know zilch about investing and trading.

 

The Investors Intelligence and the Crypto sentiment will take a while to reset. The crypto folks are not shaken even a bit. The Investors Intelligence folks will need a deeper drop to capitulate. The pros are putting up a brave face, praying that the 200 MA holds on the S&P. If we pierce thru the 200 MA and/or get a golden cross (50/200 cross), the pros will throw in the towel. The crypto folks will not capitulate until many of the ICOs go to zero and bitcoin plunges below the 2k level.

 

Again this is not a bull market, bear market debate. This is still a bull market until the quarterly trend which has been driving this bull since 2009 is intact. More on that in a separate post. This is about an intermediate term correction which is going to be complex and will take a lot of time before it concludes. 


Edited by NAV, 01 April 2018 - 08:10 AM.

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#2 EntropyModel

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 02:56 PM

Agree with ur analysis Nav.  I would add, we have bearishness in groups like investors, but we have not seen any panic on this most recent swing down, and shorter term traders

are quite bullish here ( looking at Rydex shorts/long, FF polls and various proprietary stuff I look at ).

 

I'm expecting we need to take out the spx 2530 intraday low to generate some panic and chance for IT type low. 


Question everything, especially what you believe you know. The foundation of science is questioning the data, not trusting the data. I only trust fully falsified, non vested interest 'data', which is extremely rare in our world of paid framing narratives 'psy ops'. Market Comments https://markdavidson.substack.com/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLznkbTx_dpw_-Y9bBN3QR-tiNSsFsSojB

#3 CLK

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 07:56 PM

Yes, bitcoin will go much lower, I will be glad to buy under $1000 bitcoin, I think I can make all my losses back and much 

more over the next two years. I'm waiting for the long term basing pattern after the drop to buy. 

 

It sure seems sentiment is bullish considering the magnitude of the drop in stocks, most are looking for wave 5 to new highs,

could be correct, I don't know. NYSI setup looks like new lows first.

 

I like the market cycle chart for reference when trying to figure out what is going on.

 

 

e00b481338fafd70fff9b3d24a792266.png


Edited by CLK, 01 April 2018 - 07:59 PM.


#4 Data

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 11:43 PM

Techs crashed on fundamentals in 2000.  Networking index NWX lost 95 percent of its value in one year.  The competitive local exchange carriers had burned through their cash.  Without the vendor financing by the telecom equipment suppliers, the bubble would've popped a year earlier.    The home equity cash out bubble in 2006 was the same kind of vendor financing scheme by banks and homebuilders.   Once there was no equity, it was game over in late 2007.

 

I think the vendor financing scheme is centered on the central banks this time.  When they stop, it will be over, just like the last five times over the last 20 years.



#5 diogenes227

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:32 AM

Yes, bitcoin will go much lower, I will be glad to buy under $1000 bitcoin, I think I can make all my losses back and much 

more over the next two years. I'm waiting for the long term basing pattern after the drop to buy. 

 

It sure seems sentiment is bullish considering the magnitude of the drop in stocks, most are looking for wave 5 to new highs,

could be correct, I don't know. NYSI setup looks like new lows first.

 

I like the market cycle chart for reference when trying to figure out what is going on.

 

 

e00b481338fafd70fff9b3d24a792266.png

 

Nice chart.  Looks like we're still stuck inside of complacency with anxiety like a big black hole below - break that 252.91 and it will be stock up on Xanax time.

 


"If you've heard this story before, don't stop me because I'd like to hear it again," Groucho Marx (on market history?).

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"The god of trading rewards persistence, experience and discipline, and absolutely nothing else."


#6 Data

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 12:34 PM

More firms are using Bitcoin as a stock market sentiment indicator

 

https://www.investop...rket-indicator/



#7 EntropyModel

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 02:34 PM

Agree with ur analysis Nav.  I would add, we have bearishness in groups like investors, but we have not seen any panic on this most recent swing down, and shorter term traders

are quite bullish here ( looking at Rydex shorts/long, FF polls and various proprietary stuff I look at ).

 

I'm expecting we need to take out the spx 2530 intraday low to generate some panic and chance for IT type low. 

 

fyi - Fear is rising a bit ( see Trin today), but nowhere near panic and my system is picking up increasing amount of bottom picking attempts as we approach 2530. So, system see's increasing odds we will as expected break 2530, toward 2500, below that, likely we enter full panic mode. If we can generate panic above 2450, I expect a Swing or IT low, if not, system puts high odds we get a big leg down, so we are entering the

key time window on IT timeframe this week.


Edited by Entropy2.0, 02 April 2018 - 02:36 PM.

Question everything, especially what you believe you know. The foundation of science is questioning the data, not trusting the data. I only trust fully falsified, non vested interest 'data', which is extremely rare in our world of paid framing narratives 'psy ops'. Market Comments https://markdavidson.substack.com/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLznkbTx_dpw_-Y9bBN3QR-tiNSsFsSojB