1 reply to this topic

[calmcookie]

MM

You are NOT reading what I wrote. You are not attending to details. I asked for ONE study that proved that eating high cholesterol foods, like eggs and liver, RAISES your cholesterol. YOU GAVE ME NOTHING THAT PROVED THAT .... you just gave me dozens of "cholesterol" studies.

YES Echo and MM ... if you eat the typical American diet, YOU may well need Lipitor or other statin drugs ...... to stay alive ... I never disputed that. If you eat the typical American diet, you will eventually need a great deal of conventional medical care. Bring on the drugs.

But, if you only attempt to understand what I'm saying ... instead of jumping to defend yourself ... you would realize that there is a dietary approach that, if understood, completely eliminates the NEED for any cholesterol lowering drugs. The head of Harvard School of Public Health, Dr. Walter Willett (MD PhD) would back me up on this, so would 72 year old University of Toronto Nutrition professor, Dr. Barry Bruce, so would 53 year Diabetes survivor / and diabetes specialist, Dr. Richard K. Bernstein ... along with several other people who know far more about this topic than you. Sure, many people will not follow it ... but, they have the right to know that it exists. There is a drug free way to live a long and vibrant life.

Read my post under "consider the possibility that there IS a way to prevent cancer (error in other post - said "cure") ... just open your mind to the POSSIBILITY that there are dietary principles that you know nothing about. Because, I AM absolutely certain you know nothing about what I'm referring to.

Thinking that you might be open to possibilities seems to be a waste of my time. So, that's it for me.
Good luck.

Edited by calmcookie, 16 February 2006 - 06:42 AM.

[Echo]

CC, I'll be the first to admit I don't know as much about dietary advice as I should and that you seem to have a lot of knowledge, though you seem very polarized in your opinions. Let me make a few points. 1. I can't quote you the study you want. Who would want to sponser such a study--what could they possibly gain? Who would want to volunteer for this high fat diet study? 2. Much of the evidence comes from the counter study comparing groups that adopt a low fat diet and compare to those who stay with the status quo. Those studies generally show a modest reduction in LDL cholesterol, modest because much of it does depend on genetics and LDL receptor densities as I explained before. some of these studies may show no effect due to the lack of motivation/success in the study group or unanticipated/unconscious good habits in the control group. The largest effect of diet intervention can, of course, be seen in the groups with the highest starting LDL level to begin with--countries like Scotland, Norway. To see the benefit of low fat diet in people with minimally elevated LDL, you have to get even more aggressive in the low fat prescription as Dean Ornish has clearly shown. Of course, such strict diets are beyond the long term motivation of most people, who end up needing statins to get to goal. 3. Migration studies suggest the same and try to control for the genetic component. Japanese tend to have very low fat consumption and historically low rates of heart attacks. When they migrated to Hawaii, their dietary fat intake increased and the heart attack rates became intermediate to the US. When they migrated to the west coast of the US, their fat consumption went up even further as did their heart attack rates. 4. Not to say that low carb diets can't improve LDL chol, esp sticking to complex carbs rather than simple sugars. Remember that as a people, we have varied genetics and may respond differently to similar interventions. Some folks on a low carb diet end up with much higher LDL and some with lower. There is genetic variability. 5. There is some sense in moderation, balancing a reasonably low fat diet along with a reasonably low carb diet. What are your thoughts on Mediterranean diets. Finally, in my expert opinion dealing with atherosclerosis in the heart, carotids, and leg arteries, it is better to shoot first, ask questions later. Anyone who already has had an event like a heart attack, as well as high risk individuals (diabetics, multiple other risk factors, documented early disease) needs to be started on statin first, with an emphasis on dietary intervention second. Why? The vast majority of patients don't achieve goal with diet alone IN THE REAL WORLD. Then, I dangle the carrot in front of the patient that if they can institute excellent lifestyle interventions, eat right, exercise lots and bring their LDL down to ridicuously low levels, that we will be able to cut their dose of statin and perhaps even stop it. But the burden of proof is on them. I think it is irresponsible to maintain a wait and see attitude on diet control for 6 months in HIGH risk individuals. Research shows that patients will die that could have been saved. Thanks for your input on this important topic. Echo