7 replies to this topic

[maineman]

Big report out today by top scientists, National Academy of Science, NIH, etc. The panel found (again) no benefits to vitamins. Half of all Americans take them almost daily. This is fully unregulated, since the 1994 lobby effort by the Vitmanin Industrial Complex. 23 BILLION DOLLARS a year is spent on this snake oil. While "sort of" harmless for the most part, many vitamins in excess are toxic and promote disease. In addition, because of no regulation, most of the stuff found in vitamins turns out to be bogus. Will people learn? Who knows. What did the spokesperson for the vitamin industry say? (Kind of like the Tobacco spokespeople). They said that "scientifcally controlled studies" do not tell the whole story because anectodal evidence "supports" thier safety. Maineman

[Chilidawgz]

" The conference closed yesterday after three days of presentation and discussion and concluded: "the present evidence is insufficient to recommend either for or against the use of MVMs by the American public to prevent chronic disease.""

It's human nature at work again. I see corporations like this: If they can't own it, they want to control it, if they can't control it, they want to kill it. This issue is about freedom of choice and government/regulatory agencies are heavily influenced by corporate lobbyists. Pharma would love to own this issue as there are billions they do not have their hands on. Much better from their perspective to issue via prescription through their sales force, physicians, rather than allowing consumer's freedom to purchase what they want without a controlling influence.

Good health is about making correct choices in life. Exercise, weight management, proper rest, proper eating habits (fresh veggies and fruit, nuts, berries lean meats, no trans or saturated fats, staying away from simple carbs and less carbs in general, no sugar and no processed or refined "food". Natural vitamins in reasonable dosage are nothing but cheap insurance and at the very worst, harmless.

I have a genetic heart condition for which I must see a physician occasionally. My GP and cardio guy both are overweight and dismiss vitamins as you do. I had my knee reconstructed after a fall 8 months ago and my othro is overweight and has arthritis in his hip, he is about 45 or so.

Look around at all the fat people you see and their children are even worse. This is two generations of "I'm loving it" lifestyle and eating poison for nutrition. Children in their teens developing type II diabetes, young adults with disease seen in late middle age. The food industry has poisoned the general population in this country and I think it borders on criminal intent.

My dentist after college did a stint in Africa as part of his college curriculum. He told me in the cities you saw tooth decay as in the Western nations but if you went out to the primitive villages, the people had very little in terms of caries and Western health problems. He blames it on sugar and "refined" food.



I know you are an educated man of science but your camp, IMO, is at the extreme and influenced by big pharma. I am not against relieving pain and saving life with medication when needed but pharma is big business and wants it all. Same with the food industry. It's all about control.



People need choice, not control. We are all individually responsible for our life actions, not government.

[maineman]

I clearly disagree. This has nothing to do with "pharma". This has to do with scientific research. If something is found to be right through rigorous science, it stays. If not, it goes. Your discussion is on 2 levels. Everyone agrees that proper self care is important, and research goes on re: proper diet, exercise, etc. But to simply take some vitamins and say that you are "in control" of your health is wrong, based on rigorous science. Period. You are free to believe the results or not. THe fact that you have a fat doctor means that you have a fat doctor. Period. He or she should take better care of themself. I have very healthy patients. I also have many very fat, smoking, lazy patients. Period. I do my best with them all. Finally, there are known diseases that require vitamins as the cure. That said, there is no single study that shows constant supplementation with vitamins will do anything for anyone. Good, solid scientifically challenged research. Yet its a 23 billion dollar unregulated industry. Why is that so threatening or hard to believe? mm

[Jnavin]

So, maineman, you would argue against this article:

[pistol_pete]

So, maineman, you would argue against this article:

My posting in no way condones all supplement companies or gurus (we definitely have some shisters....and some saboteurs).

Now I would like to see some factual evidence (quantitative Maineman) of how many people have been hurt/killed by supplements over the last hundred years....not just over one, or two or even ten years....that should be easy. Do you think you can come up with a few dozen?

Now since Maineman made his first post on this "report", approximately 24 hours have elapsed. If I use the most conservative extrapolation (form this website http://www.health-ca.../causedeath.htm ) over 600 people have fallen victim to the profession that likes to rest it's arguments on the scientific process. THATS ONE PERSON EVERY 3 MINUTES!!

Don't get me wrong, I am the biggest proponet of the scientic process.......but there is a big disconnect here.

BTW, the more liberal interpretation of the "side effects" of modern medicine put the number of fatalities at one every 30 seconds!!

[maineman]

Jn and so-called "pistol pete" (gee, Pete, seems you only pop in here to "this" me... were you sent by "calm cookie"?): A blind eye is a blind eye, whether in religious thought or wholesale refutation of science. Both of your "references" posted are bogus, whether you choose to acknowledge that or not. Especially the site from Pistol Pete. This one is the wolf in sheep's clothing, made to look like a legitamite site, but on the fringe only. Take a few minutes to do some due diligence on that one. Look, there is and always has been, a significant number of folks who are ill informed and suspicious of the scientific method and modern thought. That will never change, as we are free to believe what we want. Galileo's life was destroyed because he exposed faulty dogma with scientific fact. Unfortunately these facts flew in the face of Church dogma and he was imprisoned until death for his work. Copernicus was smarter, having seen what happened to Galileo. He kept his life's work hidden and had it released the day he died. Both Copernicus and Galileo were right. Thier science was irrefutable. As we saw recently from the "Intelligent Design" mess, there are many who still feel that evolution is "just" a theory and dismiss it. How there are folks who feel that way is beyond me, but there it is. The bashing of science has taken on new heights under our current administration. Bush has made it clear that he opposes science on religious grounds. More likely he is intimidated by the depth of scientific thought. So, while it saddens me to see these bogus web sites and it saddens me to hear that 23 billion dollars is spent every year by duped Americans on fraudulent "health" products I can only stick to my guns as a scientist and strive every day to see that integrity remains at the forefront of what we do. And, god forbid, one of you gets sick, I hope you find it in your heart to let us help you get well. maineman

[maineman]

Highlights from Preliminary Mortality Data, 2004

The preliminary, estimated number of deaths in the United States for 2004 was 2,398,343 (Table 1).

The estimated age-adjusted death rate, which accounts for changes in the age distribution of the population, reached a record low of 801.0 per 100,000 U.S. standard population. The preliminary crude death rate for 2004 was 816.7 per 100,000 population (Table 1).

The preliminary estimate of life expectancy at birth for the total population in 2004 reached a record high of 77.9 years (Table 1).

The 15 leading causes of death in 2004 (Table 2) were:

Diseases of heart (heart disease);

Malignant neoplasms (cancer);

Cerebrovascular diseases (stroke);

Chronic lower respiratory diseases;

Accidents (unintentional injuries);

Diabetes mellitus (diabetes);

Alzheimer's disease;

Influenza and pneumonia;

Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis (kidney disease;

Septicemia;

Intentional self-harm (suicide);

Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis;

Essential (primary) hypertension and hypertensive renal disease (hypertension);

Parkinson's disease; and

Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids.

Go to CDC.GOV for detailed data collection and ongoing analysis of the data.
You say the one person dies every 3 minutes from "medical errors" that would 175,000 deaths a year, yet when one goes to ferret that data out from the "unintentional death" statisistics run by CDC those numbers don't add up. Care to expain? (Pistol Pete or Calm Cookie ok...)

[hiker]

maineman - thank you for bringing the data to our attention that started this thread. As usual, we all can benefit from listening to differing viewpoints. I learn from what you post, and have changed some things as a result.