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Off topic - European vs U.S. way of thinking and food


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#1 calmcookie

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 12:13 AM

Have been enjoying a visit with my brother in Brussels ... long conversation last night about the differences between the culture in Europe, compared to the U.S. I perceive Americans as being very optimistic, generous and bold .... (certainly not everyone ... but generally speaking). These are qualities I love ... and Texans, especially, like to live "large!" OK ... so, SUV's are not fuel efficient, but we seem to believe that a magic alternative to petrol will eventually appear :P . And when one "believes" .... well, who knows what will happen. I like rose colored glasses. My brother has worked for large companies in Canada, the U.S. and now, in Belguim. His first impression is that most Europeans see the pie as "shrinking" ... that there is not enough for everyone ... that there is more fear and insecurity. And perhaps, as he says ... there is some reason to fear. Regrettably, this way of thinking tends to bring on the very thing we are afraid of .... whether that be in our personal lives, or in our progress as a nation.. The U.S. certainly has it's problems, but I have undying optimism in it's ability to tackle these with integrity, creativity and determination. I'm not an American, but I love my adopted Texas home and I love the American spirit. Food, art and architecture in Brussels, however, is superb! And I thought Whole Foods Market had the best of everything. :P :) :P Good day to all, C.C.

#2 dcengr

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 02:17 AM

Have been enjoying a visit with my brother in Brussels ... long conversation last night about the
differences between the culture in Europe, compared to the U.S.

I perceive Americans as being very optimistic, generous and bold .... (certainly not
everyone ... but generally speaking). These are qualities I love ... and Texans, especially,
like to live "large!" OK ... so, SUV's are not fuel efficient, but we seem to believe that a
magic alternative to petrol will eventually appear :P . And when one "believes" .... well,
who knows what will happen. I like rose colored glasses.

My brother has worked for large companies in Canada, the U.S. and now, in Belguim. His
first impression is that most Europeans see the pie as "shrinking" ... that there is not enough
for everyone ... that there is more fear and insecurity. And perhaps, as he says ... there is
some reason to fear. Regrettably, this way of thinking tends to bring on the very thing we
are afraid of .... whether that be in our personal lives, or in our progress as a nation..

The U.S. certainly has it's problems, but I have undying optimism in it's ability to tackle
these with integrity, creativity and determination. I'm not an American, but I love my adopted
Texas home and I love the American spirit.

Food, art and architecture in Brussels, however, is superb!
And I thought Whole Foods Market had the best of everything. :P :) :P

Good day to all, C.C.


Youre-a-peons always think there's not enough resources to go around. Makes em fight each other with xenophobia. Been that way for thousands of years. Look how many countries in that little packed space. Thats how Hitler came about.. Lebensraum and his great theory that there wasn't enough resources for everyone back then.. in 1940s lol. Few billion people later, they still think that way.
Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?

#3 n83

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 05:04 AM

Have been enjoying a visit with my brother in Brussels ... long conversation last night about the
differences between the culture in Europe, compared to the U.S.

I perceive Americans as being very optimistic, generous and bold .... (certainly not
everyone ... but generally speaking). These are qualities I love ... and Texans, especially,
like to live "large!" OK ... so, SUV's are not fuel efficient, but we seem to believe that a
magic alternative to petrol will eventually appear :P . And when one "believes" .... well,
who knows what will happen. I like rose colored glasses.

My brother has worked for large companies in Canada, the U.S. and now, in Belguim. His
first impression is that most Europeans see the pie as "shrinking" ... that there is not enough
for everyone ... that there is more fear and insecurity. And perhaps, as he says ... there is
some reason to fear. Regrettably, this way of thinking tends to bring on the very thing we
are afraid of .... whether that be in our personal lives, or in our progress as a nation..

The U.S. certainly has it's problems, but I have undying optimism in it's ability to tackle
these with integrity, creativity and determination. I'm not an American, but I love my adopted
Texas home and I love the American spirit.

Food, art and architecture in Brussels, however, is superb!
And I thought Whole Foods Market had the best of everything. :P :) :P

Good day to all, C.C.


Youre-a-peons always think there's not enough resources to go around. Makes em fight each other with xenophobia. Been that way for thousands of years. Look how many countries in that little packed space. Thats how Hitler came about.. Lebensraum and his great theory that there wasn't enough resources for everyone back then.. in 1940s lol. Few billion people later, they still think that way.


"there wasn't enough resources for everyone back then.. in 1940s lol. ..everything takes time"..

just give it time (like market tops and bottoms)..until then we can enjoy (who can)

everything has its limit (even optimism and pessimism..as reality always checks both in the end)

it all depends on one's timeframe when theorizing such things..an average lifespan (own lifespan) vs over a longer period as 1940s-now is a drop in the ocean timewise

#4 *JB*

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:04 AM

Interesting article that seems to fit this OT thread -- JB ==================== Victor Davis Hanson: Europe's Good Intentions Have Gone Sour June 01, 2006 In Europe, instead of utopia, unintended consequences ensue ROME - The European countryside is as beautiful as ever. Hotels in the cities are as packed as they are high-priced. Tourists fill Rome. The same bustle is evident from Lisbon to Frankfurt. Everywhere European stewards welcome in millions of sightseers to enjoy the treasures of Western civilization. Never has life seemed so good. Despite a public anti-Americanism, individual Europeans extend the old warmth and friendship to American visitors. Yet beneath the veneer of the good life, there is also a detectable air of uncertainty in Europe this summer, one perhaps similar to that of 1914 or the late 1930s. The unease is apparent in newspapers and conversations on the streets that echo the view that voters and politicians want nothing to do with the European Union constitution. Perhaps the general European discomfort could be summed up best as the following: Why hasn't the good life turned out the way we wanted it to? England, France and Germany are upping their retirement ages and/or planning pension cuts. They have given up the dream that workers in the future can quit at 55 - or even 65! The Iranians irk Europe. European governments sold them precision tools necessary for nuclear reactors. Many Europeans assured Tehran that dialogue, not rowdy Americans, alone can solve the "misunderstanding" over nuclear proliferation. But as thanks, Iran's pesky president talks down to these postmodern Europeans as if they were George Bush. Meanwhile, Iran presses ahead - hoping to top off with nukes three-stage rockets that could reach the Vatican, the Eiffel Tower or the Brandenburg Gate. Frontline Spain clamors impatiently for the European Union to clamp down on illegal immigrants streaming across the Mediterranean. The utopian vision of a continent with porous borders is, for the time being, on hold - at least as it pertains to Africa. The Dutch, the French and the Danes are petrified about unassimilated Muslim radicals in their countries who have killed or threatened the most liberal of Europeans. Churches are almost empty. Mosques are being built; Italians wrangle over plans for one of the largest in Italy - to be plopped amid the vineyards and olive groves of Tuscany. A majority of polled Germans now believe that the pacifist Europeans are in a "clash of civilizations" with the Islamic world. What is going on? Good intentions that have gone sour. The enemies of Europe's past - responsible for everything from Verdun and Dresden to a constant threat of mutually assured destruction - were identified as nationalism and militarism. Meanwhile, at home, Europeans cited cutthroat competition and unbridled individualism as additional contributory causes of the prior strife and unhappiness. So in response to the errors of the past, Europeans systematically expanded the welfare state. They welcomed in immigrants. Politicians slashed defense spending, lowered the retirement age and cut the workweek. Voters demanded trade barriers to protect the public from the ravages of globalization. Either to enjoy the good life or to save the planet, couples forswore children. But instead of utopia, unintended consequences ensued. Unemployment soared. Dismal economic growth, shrinking populations and a scarier world outside their borders followed. Abroad, even the much-heralded "soft power" of a disarmed Europe could only bring attention to, not stop, the killing in Darfur. Meanwhile, China and India are no longer inefficient socialists but breakneck capitalist competitors. Indeed, they have thrown down the gauntlet to the Europeans: "Beware! Workers of the world who labor harder, longer and smarter deserve the greater material rewards!" In this new heartless global arena, apparently few will abide by the niceties of the European Union. Publicly, Europe's frustrations are fobbed off on "crass Americans" - and particularly George Bush. The Iraq war has poisoned the alliance, the Europeans insist. They contend that America's greedy consumers warm the planet, siphon off its oil and trample foreign cultures. But in private, some Europeans will confess that the problem lies with Europeans, not us. Some brave soul soon is going to have to inform the European public: Work much harder and longer for less money; defend the continent on your own; move out of mama's house and start changing diapers - and from now on expect far less from the state. Who knows what the reaction will be to that splash of cold water? In response, what European populist will soon appear on the streets in Rome, Berlin or Madrid once again to deceive the public that it was someone else who caused these disappointments? We in America should take note of the looming end of this once seemingly endless summer. We've been there, done that with this beloved continent all too many times before. Victor Davis Hanson is a classicist and historian at Stanford University, and author, most recently, of "A War Like No Other: How the Athenians and Spartans Fought the Peloponnesian War." You can reach him by e-mailing author@victorhanson.com.
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Carl Swenlin, founder of Decision Point and original Fearless Forecasters board.

#5 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 09:23 AM

Trade is NOT a zero sum game. I'm better off owning your widgets and you're better off with my money...otherwise we'd not trade. Man is a trader and he is nobler for the effort. Profit is how we measure the needs of our fellow man and our ability to fulfill them. Somewhere along the line, the Europeans forgot this and embraced the culture of looting. When you're a looter rather than a trader, you have to view life as a zero sum game--there's only so much stuff to take (because when institutionalized theft is rampant, there's little impetus to be more productive), and if you don't get it someone else will. There's lots of stuff we can do for each other, but we have to be able to freely trade value for value. This country does that better than most, but I can only imagine the great things Europe could do if they embraced the same philosophy of rational individualism coupled with the goodwill that effective capitalists have embraced. Dum spiro, spero. Mark

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#6 mbradley

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 11:35 AM

VDH is a terrific writer and a genius when it comes to synthesizing the big picture from many small parts. Anyone interested in great writing should check out his website. http://www.victorhanson.com/

Also, there are some web interviews with him that are fantastic.

http://video.google....or davis hanson

#7 pdx5

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Posted 01 June 2006 - 12:13 PM

Trade is NOT a zero sum game.

I'm better off owning your widgets and you're better off with my money...otherwise we'd not trade.

Man is a trader and he is nobler for the effort.

Profit is how we measure the needs of our fellow man and our ability to fulfill them.

Somewhere along the line, the Europeans forgot this and embraced the culture of looting. When you're a looter rather than a trader, you have to view life as a zero sum game--there's only so much stuff to take (because when institutionalized theft is rampant, there's little impetus to be more productive), and if you don't get it someone else will.

There's lots of stuff we can do for each other, but we have to be able to freely trade value for value. This country does that better than most, but I can only imagine the great things Europe could do if they embraced the same philosophy of rational individualism coupled with the goodwill that effective capitalists have embraced.

Dum spiro, spero.


Mark



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#8 calmcookie

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Posted 02 June 2006 - 05:51 AM

Interesting. "Youre-a-peons" :lol: Am beginning to think they're really stuck in the past - so many SMOKERS, so much dog dirt (they do not pick up after their pooches ... disgusting). Too many white flour baguettes (intestinal glue - great for colostomy business) and few public bathrooms. And of course the Parisians were rioting a couple of weeks ago in an attempt to ensure job security. Hey, wake up .... no more cushy "ever secure" do nothing, beuuroooocratic jobs. Gee ... I gotta work for a living? What a revelation. People either make change happen, or they have it imposed (then they riot). ;) Americans really are - MUCH MORE PROGRESSIVE. But, still having great time - off to Paris on Teusday. Happy trading to all, C.C.

Edited by calmcookie, 02 June 2006 - 05:53 AM.