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Victor Niederhoffer a man who needs some lumps


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#1 dcengr

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 07:56 PM

The guy who lost everything in the 98 crash dares to call Jesse Livermore's tragic ending a "sad chapter in a sad market life".

I sometimes wonder what ole Victor would do if the market crashed again and wipes him out. Would he be humbled like he says he is? I read his website from time to time. It is my opinion only, and many will disagree with me, that the man is highly arrogant. He poo poos technical analysis, and sat in the house of pain during the may down pour, and has nothing but contempt for bears. Karma, what comes around goes around.

Random Reflections on Jesse Livermore, by Victor Niederhoffer

Inspired by the Christmas spirit, I have in front of me an original copy of How To Trade In Stocks by Jesse Livermore. The jacket reads, "The Livermore Formula for Combining Time Elements and Price with 16 color charts. 133 pp. New York Duel. Sloan Press, First Edition. Special Edition Limited to Five Hundred Copies. Printed on all rag paper. Blue Beveled Buckrum, stamped in silver with the Livermore Market Key. Signed by the author before the first page of text. Exceedingly rare thus. 1940."

The book is a collection of sage reflections based on the many losses and gains Livermore took, before he lost everything. It also contains 10 pages of rules as to how to record in 18 columns with black and red ink and pencil whether a stock "is in an upward trend or downward trend until a natural reaction occurs with particular reference to Pivotal Points ." And also "...depending on how prices are recorded when the market returns to around those points, you will then be able to form an opinion as to whether the positive trend is going to be resumed in earnest, or whether the movement has ended..." With 35 nebulous rules like this, that seem the work of a madman, it is no wonder that shortly thereafter he committed the final act of suicide, thus sparing his followers from further losing much more money. None of the rules are tested, and no concept of consistencies with randomness, and no attention to the grind that the house takes or the drift of the market. A sad chapter in a sad market life.


Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?

#2 wallyw

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 04:43 PM

The guy who lost everything in the 98 crash dares to call Jesse Livermore's tragic ending a "sad chapter in a sad market life".

I sometimes wonder what ole Victor would do if the market crashed again and wipes him out. Would he be humbled like he says he is? I read his website from time to time. It is my opinion only, and many will disagree with me, that the man is highly arrogant. He poo poos technical analysis, and sat in the house of pain during the may down pour, and has nothing but contempt for bears. Karma, what comes around goes around.

Random Reflections on Jesse Livermore, by Victor Niederhoffer

Inspired by the Christmas spirit, I have in front of me an original copy of How To Trade In Stocks by Jesse Livermore. The jacket reads, "The Livermore Formula for Combining Time Elements and Price with 16 color charts. 133 pp. New York Duel. Sloan Press, First Edition. Special Edition Limited to Five Hundred Copies. Printed on all rag paper. Blue Beveled Buckrum, stamped in silver with the Livermore Market Key. Signed by the author before the first page of text. Exceedingly rare thus. 1940."

The book is a collection of sage reflections based on the many losses and gains Livermore took, before he lost everything. It also contains 10 pages of rules as to how to record in 18 columns with black and red ink and pencil whether a stock "is in an upward trend or downward trend until a natural reaction occurs with particular reference to Pivotal Points ." And also "...depending on how prices are recorded when the market returns to around those points, you will then be able to form an opinion as to whether the positive trend is going to be resumed in earnest, or whether the movement has ended..." With 35 nebulous rules like this, that seem the work of a madman, it is no wonder that shortly thereafter he committed the final act of suicide, thus sparing his followers from further losing much more money. None of the rules are tested, and no concept of consistencies with randomness, and no attention to the grind that the house takes or the drift of the market. A sad chapter in a sad market life.


i haven't read this book but i have found quite a number of quotations by livermore to be quite useful. they are generally not rules but guidelines that are very useful.

#3 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 11:40 AM

As I recollect Vic's blow up, I wonder at how he can this Jesse. His disasterous error was trivially simple to have avoided. We all screw up, but this one was unforgivible, in my opinion, for somone who is as experienced as he is. It was basic money management (from what I was told at the time).



What's funny is that I gather that I was doing the same thing as he was and I saw the risk of that very (or very similar) trade going south and figured that I didn't like where I had to put my stop, so I didn't take it. He did and evidently he didn't like where he would have to place that stop to, so he never placed it.



Bad, bad, bad. Unforgivible.



Mark



The guy who lost everything in the 98 crash dares to call Jesse Livermore's tragic ending a "sad chapter in a sad market life".

I sometimes wonder what ole Victor would do if the market crashed again and wipes him out. Would he be humbled like he says he is? I read his website from time to time. It is my opinion only, and many will disagree with me, that the man is highly arrogant. He poo poos technical analysis, and sat in the house of pain during the may down pour, and has nothing but contempt for bears. Karma, what comes around goes around.

Random Reflections on Jesse Livermore, by Victor Niederhoffer

Inspired by the Christmas spirit, I have in front of me an original copy of How To Trade In Stocks by Jesse Livermore. The jacket reads, "The Livermore Formula for Combining Time Elements and Price with 16 color charts. 133 pp. New York Duel. Sloan Press, First Edition. Special Edition Limited to Five Hundred Copies. Printed on all rag paper. Blue Beveled Buckrum, stamped in silver with the Livermore Market Key. Signed by the author before the first page of text. Exceedingly rare thus. 1940."

The book is a collection of sage reflections based on the many losses and gains Livermore took, before he lost everything. It also contains 10 pages of rules as to how to record in 18 columns with black and red ink and pencil whether a stock "is in an upward trend or downward trend until a natural reaction occurs with particular reference to Pivotal Points ." And also "...depending on how prices are recorded when the market returns to around those points, you will then be able to form an opinion as to whether the positive trend is going to be resumed in earnest, or whether the movement has ended..." With 35 nebulous rules like this, that seem the work of a madman, it is no wonder that shortly thereafter he committed the final act of suicide, thus sparing his followers from further losing much more money. None of the rules are tested, and no concept of consistencies with randomness, and no attention to the grind that the house takes or the drift of the market. A sad chapter in a sad market life.


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