Endisnear said:
"the med/pharma industries have no interest in preventing anything whatsoever unless they can do so w/a drug. Sure, there may be a few instances here of some good docs and clinics but overall, its in there best interest financially to keep us fat, doped up and stupid."
How did you know we all get together secretly and plan for the ill-being, laziness, and poor diet of millions and millions of people around the world? You have to admit we are pretty good at our plan, though. Look how successful we are. But, I believe you know too much...so watch your back
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To be clear, I don't blame doctors for the 'fat epedemic'. Clearly this is a cultural problem as I outlined above, a shift to a sedentary society which medicates with food, and food is cheap and abundent as never before. The drug companies are doing their job in a capitistic society which is to make money off the problem, as are the gazillions of supplement makers, crazy excercise sellers etc etc
But whilst Doctors aren't too blame, they can't claim any credit on this issue either. Whatever the merits of advice given by medical community the last 20 years, weve seen a truly scary rise of obesity in last 10 years in America and UK for that matter, so it begs the quesiton Why has medical advice not helped? and why would any new advice make any difference?
I think the advice was good in theory but poor in reality because -
1. It Was poorly marketed - the 'message got lost', or wasn't important enough for Govt to spend the $ necessary to make it effective.I suggested how to make it effective above.
2. The advice ignored the reality human psychology.
They overestimate the nutritional education of the public,and the will power of people.
Most people do not understands how to calculate how many calories they are eating, and it would take a heck of alot of educate them to it.
So I think it was a mistake to try to focus on carbs/fats and calorie intake.
It has to be simpler - don't eat prepacked food instead prepare meals from scratch, don't eat take out or eat out more than once a week..yeah..screams of terror...because eating out or take out is now 'culturally enshrined' ...that's THE problem.
3.. They got bogged down arguing about scientific justificaiton of diet plans
e.g. whats better low fat/high fat/zone/atkin etc debate, which just ended up help advertise these things.
If you 50+ lbs overweight, barring a rare medical problem its mostly because you eat too much, its doesn't matter where calories come from fat/protein or carbs....don't get drawn into that nonsense it just legitimizes it.
4. Lack focus on physical activity. The statment made in your thread above is an example of this mixed message
- ' confirm that exercise is NOT a good way to lose weight (eating less is)'
This lacks context, it assumes vast over eating but isn't born out by statistics. The average person gains 1-5lbs a year from middle age.1lb fat is 3500calories. But even 5lbs is only 5*3500=18,000calories a year. Thats just a daily calorie excess of just 10 to 50calories!
Exercise doesn't burn many calories' so won't overcome vast over eating, but it helps people over eating say 50-100calories a day, in many ways
a. It can build muscle mass and hence raise basal metablism. A sedentary person can easily add 10lbs muscle, adding approx' 100cal day to calorie needs, if they don't eat more that removes their 50cal excess.
b. 30min brisk walk=150cal, again well excess of 50cal.
c. Exercise *may* improve hormonal responses, which help to lower fat storage.
Of course, reality is people defeat themselves by eating MORE once they do some exercise. So your Behaviour mod point is key and correct in other thread, and I hope the medical community focus on that going forward.
I've often been asked for advice, and I've reached the realization people need plans that are workable by human nature and their level of interest and education, not 'idealistic' plans . Here's the simple advice I think that recognizes the problems above i.e. isn't too complex, recognizes indivual differences and psychology-
If your body fat is above 30%, get a physical from a Doctor. Then start with walking as much possible, no other exercise ( forces are too high on joints plus heart attack risk). In this case focus has to be on calorie reduction. i.e. don't harp on about intense aerobic or exercise for this group, it will make them fail.
Once people get into 20-30% body fat zone, they can add lifting some weight to build some muscle to boost metabolism, and some aerobics. to burn off excess calories They must NOT increase calorie intake or it wont help. i.e. They don't need to obsess about exerise methods either, it won't make much different for them...literally doing 'anything' will see most of the gains from exercise.
( so the focus is initially more on nutritional changes as you said, but exercise can contribute increasingly as body fat drops, because people are psychologically able to 'handle it' once they get their weight down a bit and see progress...now they realize maybe some 'pain' is worth the gain)
If people can get into 10-20% body fat ( this is all for men add 5% for women) - now they can start arguing finer points of fats/carbs/protein etc and exercise methods, it will make some difference for these people. I think i've tried nearly everything in the last 20years to see 'what really works' - for many people its a way to keep motivated for many people..tinkering with nutrition and exercise methods, so let people have their 'faiths' if it keeps them motivated...and Dcotors don't shoot down the science too fast, your right but just let people be....its a bit like atheists might be right, but they are very unpopular.
People below 10% bodyfat will be atheletic types who don't need any help...they usually know about scientific training methods and realize most of the 'diets' and exercise methods are bogus. Er, put me in that camp..call me a non believer, cynic of whatever...but i've maintain 5-7% body fat to age 39 so forgive me if I stick to what I've found works for me.
Mark.
Edited by entropy, 27 December 2006 - 06:44 PM.
Question everything, especially what you believe you know. The foundation of science is questioning the data, not trusting the data.
I only trust fully falsified, non vested interest 'data', which is extremely rare in our world of paid framing narratives 'psy ops'.
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