13 replies to this topic

[Chilidawgz]

perhaps you may want to listen to G. Edward Griffin
and his view?

[James Quillian]

perhaps you may want to listen to G. Edward Griffin
and his view?

IMO a brainstroming session would accomplish more than a debate.
As far as I can tell, the Fed is not doing one single thing to cause M3 to grow.
If the fed is messing with M3, someone in the world should be able to precisely describe a possible process they could use to do it. And, then produce some stats to demonstrate thay they are doing it.
M3 is rising but it doesn't appear that the Fed is responsible for causing its growth.
It is mostly the gold nuts who seem to think the Fed is playing a trick on everybody. But, the gold nuts never seem to feel the need to explain themselves when someone questions one of their premises. Most start with the flawed argument that fiat money automatically bad and then expect people to accept everything else they say on faith.
These guys are more of a con than the people they criticize.
Hey, I am a conspiricy kook in good standing. But, people still have to explain how the Fed is doing what they are doing, if they are blaiming them for something.
I find it interesting that M1 is falling at the same time M3 is rising.

[Chilidawgz]

It is mostly the gold nuts who seem to think the Fed is playing a trick on everybody. But, the gold nuts never seem to feel the need to explain themselves when someone questions one of their premises. Most start with the flawed argument that fiat money automatically bad and then expect people to accept everything else they say on faith.
These guys are more of a con than the people they criticize.

I am probably one of those gold nuts

But I prefer to trade it via shares...I hold nothing long term, except for the house, paid off.





The FED is inflation, I don't see how you can not see that. They practice a private fiat/fractal system that enables congress to spend the country further into debt each year. Most western countries are based on that model. Insanity. The system is comprised of bankers and beaureucrats whose job is to distort and report numbers. Most people have no faith in the government's reporting anymore. We all live in an era of Lemmings/the emperor has no clothes. All empires end, even ours will pass the torch, probably to China. Fiscal irresponsibility is always one facet of the demise.



Stay out of Federal notes, one day you will be able to wallpaper your house with them.

[arbman]

I don't know about the Fed at the moment but, when the dealers go nuts like this in borrowing, the usual outcome is a rapid decline and then a huge reversal...

Currently, the Fed's message is also clear with over $40B in short term and $6B permanent repos. Some of the short term repos will expire next week, but I am thinking the action from the dealers says the Fed will not abandon them until the commodity prices start to heat up again or the dollar takes another nose dive.

The PPI took one of the largest decline, similar to every other major economic slowdown, I am certain that they have every reason to believe that the USD made a strong bottom and it is time to inject more...

- kisa

Edited by kisacik, 31 December 2006 - 12:08 AM.

[pdx5]

Don't understand why the FED is blamed for creating inflation. It is the CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES who has the SOLE AUTHORITY to spend. They initiate the spending bills and the president signs it to make it law. The Fed is simply the mechanism the congress uses to enable deficit spending. The Fed and the US Treasury is required by law to provide the funds ALREADY authorized for spending by the congress. If there was ZERO deficit spending, there would be no new Treasury bonds, no bills and no notes. As the economy grows, the Fed would only need to increase sufficient cash in circulation to satisfy needs of the expanding economy which then would not be inflationary. And JQ is exactly right in that every anti-fiat currency doomster is trying to sell you gold. Gold is currently selling at aprox 1/3 of what it sold in the 1970's high point adjusted for inflation. Gold could very well appreciate from here but it has poor record over span of 30 years. Chili is right in using gold as a trading vehicle, which is all it is.

Edited by pdx5, 31 December 2006 - 12:24 AM.

[arbman]

Certainly for most of the big business spending, but the Fed should've kept the rates much higher during 2003-2005 period to prevent the housing rush and the credit bubbles to the top. The housing just appreciated much faster than even the upper income people could afford now and it just sucked in too many who could barely afford the low rates at the top. There has been many people and small corporations who tried to borrow heavily due to cheap money and they will also face the same problems. RUT is barely making a double top while the large caps soared since May. There are serious top signs in that respect, imho, can the economy afford the higher prices and the higher rates?

[pdx5]

Yes I agree that the Fed lowered the interest rates too low, all the way down to 1% for Fed funds. That surely was a contributing factor for the housing boom. But the main reason IMO is the sub-prime borrowers given loans without sufficient down payments and risky ARM's. But I don't think the housing bubble is the cause of chronic inflation. It is the excess money the Fed has to create to provide funds for the deficit spending by the congress & president. Last year the Govt had to borrow 13% of its income! All this creating of excess dollars is the real cause of inflation. Again Fed is a beauracracy just following laws already passed by the congress. Blaming them for excesses is putting the cart before the horse. The Fed is the horse and the cart driver is the US congress & president.

[arbman]

They need to raise the taxes on the rich who benefited the most during this 5 yr reflation effort by the central banks... US congress and the President did nothing but accommodated their rescue wishes to save their asse(t)s since 2002... The working class did nothing but tried to save themselves by leveraging while the prices of literally everything went up... However, they will end up paying the consequences as usual...

[...]

G. Edward Griffin

Except that Griffin, a discredited kook of the first magnitude, has nothing to contribute to a serious discussion of anything.

The poor guy can't even get basic facts right. He's a nutter.

They need to raise the taxes on the rich

I've noticed your posts indicating that you think a big slowdown/recession is likely. That would certainly do it.

Edited by ..., 31 December 2006 - 07:52 AM.

[James Quillian]

The FED is inflation, I don't see how you can not see that. They practice a private fiat/fractal system that enables congress to spend the country further into debt each year. Most western countries are based on that model. Insanity. The system is comprised of bankers and beaureucrats whose job is to distort and report numbers. Most people have no faith in the government's reporting anymore. We all live in an era of Lemmings/the emperor has no clothes. All empires end, even ours will pass the torch, probably to China. Fiscal irresponsibility is always one facet of the demise.
Stay out of Federal notes, one day you will be able to wallpaper your house with them.

The problem is not fiat currency. The problem is democracy. The Full Employment Act of 1946 and the Full Emploement Act of 1978 sound good but are bad laws.

There is nothing wrong with fiat money and the world will never collapse because of it.
Fiat money provides a means of meauring the value of one item in terms of others, just as gold does. Dollars can still be redeemed in gold, but by dealers instead of the Federal Government. Also, the price of gold is not fixed. As long as there is not to much money there are fewer problems than with metal based currencies. The gold standard produced more problems than our current system.
Central banks will never destroy the world and neither will fiat currency but democracy might.

With all of that said, I agree that there is too much money in the world today. I just don't agree that the Fed is pumping M3 and tricking everyone into believing they are tightening money. I am willing to be convinced. So, precisely what and when has the Fed done anything to goose M3?


James