8 replies to this topic

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For years, I've maintained an additional futures account at Lind to trade pit-traded grains and meats and NY metals and softs. In 2006, IB implemented CBOT/CME grain and meat pit capability. Now they have added Comex products and cocoa, coffee, OJ, sugar and cotton. At long last, IB now pretty much covers the entire gamut of futures, both pit-traded and electronic. The highest commission rate they charge is $6 a side for CME pit-traded, the lowest is $.63 for SSFs, and the average across all products is probably about $2.50 a side. All with no volume requirements whatsoever. Outfits like Lind are going to have their lunch eaten by IB. There's no way I'll keep the Lind account open to pay $6.32 instead of $1.26 RT for SSFs or $10 instead of ~$4 RT for YM, ES, NQ or ER2 when I don't have a NY soft trade to make but want to keep the money busy. Not to mention having to use their lousy software. Many a time I have simultaneously entered identical orders in TWS and LindXpress only to have TWS report the execution instantaneously and Lind come back 30 seconds to a minute later. Worse yet, for reasons they can't explain, Lind can't manage to keep their SSF listings even remotely current. There are now over 500 SSFs, but Lind only makes about 100 available, believe it or not. And they don't seem concerned about it at all, despite the problem having been brought to their attention. How long can it take to have somebody keep up with OneChicago's listings? Apparently, they're too used to traditional commodity futures. IB continues to change the discount retail futures industry. Lind used to be an innovator (as one of the first discount brokers about 25 years ago,) but they seem to have become stale (despite the excitement of the Refco crash and burn, which didn't affect the regulated side at all) and now act more like they're wearing white shoes. Buh, bye, Lind. IB gets it all. And, no, I don't work for IB. But, I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night!

[OEXCHAOS]

Yet another happy IB customer. I only caution newbies that IB doesn't hold hands and sometimes getting ahold of a warm body can be problematic, from what I hear. They are for those who know what they are doing. Mark

[Cirrus]

I agree with Mark. If you are a newbie or first time trader you may want to start with someone that can hold your hand--whoever that may be. However, I am a VERY happy IB customer. They also offer about the best credit and debit rates out there. They do offer some extra and preferred support if you're an 'institutional' client. They don't hold your hand but customer service is available. Great platform, too.

[bln]

Great news, been missing the ability to trade soybean and pork chops.

[SideShowBob]

Don't forget that IB also now provides historical data for all available products, and for futures they provide data for expired contracts, some as far back as mid-2005. They also provide bid and ask historical data, which is especially useful for options where there often are no trades. Also penny options are available, not that I've used them. It's not all roses though...some gotchas with IB: - don't upgrade your TWS unless you need a new feature or they force you to. New versions are often buggy and can cause major problems - their API documentation reads like a google translation of a japanese website. - they don't pay interest on the first $10,000 in your account. I assume this is to discourage "small" traders who (often but *not* always) tend to be newbies who do stupid things and wipe out their accounts, then complain on forums about IB when it was their own fault. Read the post on Elitetrader.com about the guy who had 9 google call options in his IRA and didn't specify that he didn't want them to exercise, so by default they auto-exercised (which isn't an IB thing -- it's automated by the options clearing corp) and when his holdings were liquidated on the following Monday he lost a ton of money. Sure it's possible IB *could* have prevented it had they been watching his account personally, but he didn't want to take any responsibility for his own stupidity). Some tips: - if possible, open a friends and family advisor account (even if you only have a single account). you then get to deal with their pro services department, which I've found to be much better than their regular CSRs. Note that this will also mean that you also will need to allocate each trade to an account, although with a single account it's pretty easy to do. - if you encounter a serious problem, search elitetrader.com first and if you don't see anything then post there about it. IB reps are active on that board and will often respond to problems there pointing out your mistake or escalating within IB. I had a problem with a order on ECBOT and I posted, a rep sent me a private message within 30 minutes, got my info, escalated it back at IB and came back with an explanation that evening of how to submit the orders to avoid the problem (it's an ECBOT limitation I hadn't seen with GLOBEX since GLOBEX stops are not native). SSB One other thing to add -- I maintain a separate account in case IB has a problem specific to them and I cannot close out positions. I can at least hedge the same contract in my other account and offset the risk. I use tradestation because their commissions are similar to IB's but any broker will do (unless they really suck!)

Edited by SideShowBob, 22 January 2007 - 10:11 AM.

[Cirrus]

SSB, Great job explaining all the nuances! I would add that once you surpass 10,000$ their rates are virtually second to none. Don't forget that with a universal account you can store your cash in ANY currency of your choosing and receive an interest rate linked to that currency--could be good/could be bad...LOL. Also, they have some outstanding free security features to prevent hacking or unwanted access. They give you some freebies like one or two free wires per month. I LOVE the direct access to international exchanges--ESPECIALLY the Vancouver and Toronto exchanges.

Edited by Cirrus, 22 January 2007 - 10:44 AM.

[jawndissedi]

Great thread -- even though I've been an IB customer for a while, I see there's still a lot I can learn. On a slightly different subject: does anyone here have any experience with Northern Trust? I have some balances in excess of FDIC insurance limits that I want to remove from Wells Fargo, and I like the sound of these guys in Chicago. Comments?

[IndexTrader]

I've been with IB now for a number of years. Gradually I've shifted funds from other accounts until IB has most of my money. They earned it. Just an observation. IB is not there to hold your hand. That said, a careful reading of their online manual covers enough that "hand holding" becomes an infrequent necessity. I could count the times I've called them on one hand. When I read about a problem, it's usually a situation where the user did not read the manual. By the way, as Cirrus said, they paid the best rates around on funds, leaving out the first $10K. I have no problem with that at all. It's probably not for everyone. For instance, they don't handle mutual funds. So if that's your desire they wouldn't be the place. IT

[...]

They are for those who know what they are doing.

Absolutely. One should only go the IB route if you figure you'll never need to talk to a live body about anything.

In a couple of thousand trades, I've never had that need. The toughest stuff is pit trades because you're a bit out of touch, unlike electronic markets. But, they've done a good job on CME pit fills for me on a purely electronic order transmission basis.

They do a great job for minimal commisions. And they actually compete for the business. The original SSF rate was a buck per side. They cut it to 63 cents about 6 months ago without any clamor to do so that I'm aware of.

I could count the times I've called them on one hand. When I read about a problem, it's usually a situation where the user did not read the manual

Never called them, but e-mailed a non-urgent question.

You're exactly right. The answer was on their site. Maybe a bit buried and not easy to find, but it was there.