14 replies to this topic

[fib_1618]

I have read some galactically foolish statements on this board, but this is the first time I've actually seen a poster claiming to be omniscient.

It comes with age.

And thank you for proving my point about belittling.

Fib

[PorkLoin]

I see constant change; human emotion and systems going from one extreme to another. I think Marx was right about the Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis stuff, though I agree that socialism is no cure-all. If anything I think it just makes for less wealth overall, and without "fair" distribution of even that. 1800s into the early 1900s - the US had largely unbridled capitalism and a relative few exceedingly rich people while the masses languished, though obviously it's all very relative -- the "poor" in the US are usually far better off than most people in the world. The rise of the unions and the middle class changed things a lot in the US, and now that pendulum may be swinging back the other way, again -- it's one extreme to another even in the long term. I doubt that humans can come up with a really stable deal. Best, Doug

[arbman]

The pendulum swings because people forget about what happened, every generation thinks at some point they know better until they are thaught again. When people got poor, they formed the unions and they are being destroyed today for the same reason because they feel rich. Yet, I can not help but notice how the rich is busy destroying the pension plans and attacking the unions today, divide and conquer...

[endisnear]

Just another example have how socialism never works.

Thats right.
Many things that governments try never work. For example, democracy never works.
Democracy corrupts free markets. Socialism is a natural outgrowth of democracy. When physical coercion is used to implement socialism, the poor steal from the rich.
When democracy is used a different brand of socialism results. The rich steal from the poor.

with out the rich you would have no poor.....without the poor you would have no rich.......without either you have socialism.......and a sewer......

Hey Chief...

My fiancee from Romania, while still in HS once worked in a factory in a business class, and her job was to replace expired labels on rotten canned fish and meat w/new labels....then ship out for resale...

Romania now in EU was once part of eastern communist bloc and allied w/Russia. Open markets but still terribly ineffecient. Her sister currently has a high paying ($1000/mo eq) govt job working for Prime Minister. Her sole function is to watch CNN Europe all day and write a brief report of daily events for him....and they have the internet..!

Hows that for efficiency.

[OEXCHAOS]

The pendulum swings because people forget about what happened, every generation thinks at some point they know better until they are thaught again. When people got poor, they formed the unions and they are being destroyed today for the same reason because they feel rich. Yet, I can not help but notice how the rich is busy destroying the pension plans and attacking the unions today, divide and conquer...

Kisa, it's every OTHER generation that forgets.



Also, people are leaving unions because unions have failed them miserably. It's always all about the union extending it's power, not about long-term mutual benefit for workers and the (ideally OTHER) owners of the business.



So, in many cases, the unions negotiated uneconomic benefit packages and work rules and short-sighted (or self-interested) managements went along because they deemed it wasn't worth fighting and in the end they'd be gone before the poop hit the prop. So, now you have bankrupt companies and ripped off pensions and those who are responsible happily counting their money from 20-30 years ago. And yes, workers who passively stood by unquestioningly taking those obviously over-generious benefits and government that aided and abetted corrupt unions and managements all deserve their fair share of the blame.



Mark