25 replies to this topic

[mss]

Old houses, old schools, the place is "fat" with lead paint and the most dangerous of all - ASBESTUS - add to that mold etc. and second hand smoke is sort of like the co2 effect on global warming. Second hand smoke has a bearing, but there are so many other factors involved, including the good/bad gene pool. As Mark points out, follow the money! If we quit subsidizing tobacco farmers, smoking would take care of its self. But there is very little politics drama or money in mold & asbestus. mss

Edited by mss, 19 October 2007 - 10:20 AM.

[maineman]

We've had this discussion here before. Asbestos is nasty stuff. The work in the 1950s was ground breaking.... the connection between asbestos(shipyard workers) and increasing rates of lung cancer. Opened the way to a lot of awareness about environmental risk. Unfortunately the data was imprecise and the conclusions were not valid... a rush to blame without all the facts (sound familiar?...) 20 years later the same team of researchers retracted... they had dug deeper and discovered that it was the CIGARETTE smokers who worked around asbestos who had the high rates of cancer. Same with coal workers a nd others. There is a RARE form of lung cancer, mesothelioma, that is found due to asbestos. The indicidenc is VERY low. Lead paint is bad. We know that. Its being taken care of. Smoking kills. Why can't we agree on that? mm

[stocks]

Hard to see a mass killer in this repeat post:

The anti-smoking hysteria has not arrived in Japan yet, and smoking is still relatively popular. The smoking rate among adult men is almost 50%, while for women it is below 15%. The law prohibits the smoking of cigarettes to persons under the age of twenty. Cigarettes can be bought in tabacco stores and at vending machines.

If you are a sensitive person concerning smoke, you may have a hard time in some situations in Japan. Non-smoking areas are not very common in restaurants and public areas, not even in fast food or family restaurants. Furthermore, you won't be able to enjoy pachinko, since the parlors are extremely smoky places. On the other hand, all trains have non-smoking cars.

http://www.japan-gui...om/e/e2228.html

LIVING LONGER: The Japanese still live longer than anyone else. Japanese women born in 1993 are expected to live 82.51 years- up .129 years from the previous year. Men are expected to live 76.25 years- up .16 years. French women placed second at 80.94 years followed by Switzerland at 80.90, Iceland at 80.89 and Sweden at 80.79. American women placed at 79.10 years. For men, second place was Iceland at 75.74 years, Sweden at 75.35, Hong Kong at 74.90 and Israel at 74.54. U.S. males were at 72.2 years. The Japanese said their long lives was due to moderation in eating and drinking. Other advice was early to bed and early to rise religious faith and hard work.

http://www.efmoody.c...m/lifespan.html

I have taken the figures from the list of 87 countries, based on figures by the WHO and CIA and compiled the Top 15 life expectancies for males and females.

I find the (male) figures for Japan(!), Israel, Greece, Cuba and Spain very interesting. How could three countries with smoking prevalences of 45-59% show up in the Top 15 at all?
The percentage of Japanese smokers is 2.7 times higher than that of the Swedes, but an avarage Japanese still lives one year longer!

http://www.kidon.com...ercentages2.htm

[maineman]

Stocks, I am sorry if I misunderstood your posts or the intention of your posts. I think what I'm hearing you say is you don't believe cigarrettes are dangerous. If so, go ahead and smoke, and god help you. If so, I won't spend anymore time on this thread. Suffice it to say, cigarettes are the number one killer, bar none. The data is overwhelming. In places where smoking has declined, death has declined. In places where smoking is increasing (like China, Mexico, Japan, etc) the death rate is soaring. Believe what you will and best of luck to you. mm

[OEXCHAOS]

MM, the point of my prior post was also to tie in with your reference to childhood asthma and similar lung ailments. And, BTW, I know how much better I felt when I quit smoking. Libido up, taste buds up, smell, up. Life got better. I know, absolutely KNOW that those little kittens I coughed up every morning were a warning. Nobody should smoke, especially because it's almost impossible to "smoke occasionally" for long. It hooks into you when you're at your weakest and then it has you. And, then, sooner or later it's going to hurt you or kill you. Mark

[stocks]

Smoking may be banned from Connecticut bars and restaurants, but patients at Connecticut Valley Hospital won't give up their smokes without a fight.

A ban set to take effect Monday at the state's largest psychiatric hospital has been postponed because of a lawsuit filed by seven patients.

Bryan Giordano, a military veteran and smoker, is one of six men, all longtime patients, who sued in federal court last week alleging violation of their civil rights. They contend that the smoking ban is retaliation for complaints they made to the U.S. Department of Justice - a claim CVH denies.

In August, the Justice Department announced the results of a nearly two-year investigation that found sweeping problems with patient care and safety. The investigation found that restraints are used too often, and for the convenience of staff. It also found that suicide risk remains high at the hospital.

Recently, the hospital decided to go "tobacco-free." People with psychiatric and substance-abuse disorders often have an addiction to tobacco, and the ban was designed to help them break the habit, said Wayne Dailey, a spokesman for the state Department of Mental Health and Addiction Services, which oversees CVH.

But the ban was called off after the hospital was served with the lawsuit. The patients say tobacco boosts their mood and thinking and takes the edge off antipsychotic drugs. Forcing them to kick the habit could have serious consequences, which is why the legislature gave psychiatric hospitals an exemption to the smoking ban, the plaintiffs argue. The hospital will continue to offer programs to help patients quit. "We're trying to do what we can to promote the health of the people we serve," Dailey said.

http://www.signs-of-...nge Smoking Ban

[maineman]

References for Mark about smokers who kill their children:

http://www.lungusa.o...LUK9O0E&b=39857

http://www.entnet.or...dhand_smoke.cfm

http://www.acponline...t05/special.htm

Heres a link to a intesting NEJM article reveiwing the SUCCESS of the COMPLETE ban of smoking in IRELAND and its implication for the rest of the world:
http://content.nejm....ull/356/15/1496

For STOCKS (or is your name "smokes") it is well known that schizophrenic patients are chain smokers. Studies over the past few years show that they get a little calmer when allowed to keep their cigarettes. This has been a national problem as most hospitals have developed smoke-free campuses, so the question of how and where to allow these deeply ill patients to smoke is under debate. At our hospital we have a very expensive room with ventilators to exhaust the foul smoke away and smoke does not get into the ventilation system of the hospital...

IN one town in Maine we've already banned smoking in the car if you have kids in the car. IE if you are seen smoking with kids in the car you get a fine and and your name in the paper... I hope this catches on in the rest of the country.

Smoking and tobacco are lethal poisons. They kill people and it drains health dollars from the system. Patients who smoke use inhalers that cost 145 dollars a month in order to breath and keep smoking. The VA pays for it. Blue Cross pays for it... i.e. YOU pay for it with your tax dollars. Oxygen costs nearly 500 dollars a month. Medicare pays for it. YOU pay for it with your tax dollars. These guys pulll off the Oxygen and go smoke.

An open heart bypass costs over 50,000 dollars and much more in medication, follow up treatments, etc. Many are caused by cigarettes. YOU pay for that. Many of these guys and gals sneak cigarettes when they get home.

Esophageal cancer, bladder cancer. Increased rates of cataracts. Increased rates of Breast cancer. Emphysema, chronic bronchitis. Lung cancer. Increased rate of vascular claudication.

2000 to 3000 dollars a month in cigarette cost. Put that in a mutual fund over 30 years instead of smoking....

Average visit to pediatrician for an ear infection can cost up to 100 bucks nowadays. If a kid whose parents smoke gets a few more ear infections or asthma attacks or bronchitis episodes a winter, do the math on that. YOU are paying for that.

Some ideas in life are not proven. Some issues of GLobal Warming are controversial. Saving a spotted tree owl might be sweet. But why not SAVE KIDS, SAVE ADULTS and help RID the world of a poison that will kill more people in the world this year than the Bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki did?

Don't be a sucker for the tobacco lobby. They have a lot of money and sneak a lot of false "information" into a variety of literature. They have everything to lose. We, as doctors and human beings, have no financial interest in "winning". Think about it... we'll lose money in doctor visits, pills, inhalers, x-rays.. etc. We WAN"T to lose that business and make people healthy. Whose side do you want to be on?

mm

or you can join Cookie's "ORANGE JUICE CAUSES HEART DISEASE" band wagon. That sounds like it would be a fun group to hang out with... (warning...sarcastic comment just read by you)

[maineman]

http://www.nytimes.c...amp;oref=slogin

here's an article in today's NY Times... sad....

mm

[stocks]

And the reason why the Japanese live so long and smoke so much is ...?? At lease you're presenting an argument and not throwing a tantrum.

[maineman]

And the reason why the Japanese live so long and smoke so much is ...??

At lease you're presenting an argument and not throwing a tantrum.

Japanese smokers die just as fast and in the same numbers as non Japanese smokers.

I do not know why anyone smokes who has half a brain. It is the most lethal substance known. You have to ba complete moron to be unaware of this. Peer pressure, Tobacco Company advertising, etc. all leads to smoking.

I am just insulted by your last remark. Why? Do I know you? Are you mad at me? Who the hell are you?
You seem to be someone who is just pissed off about everything, and anything from your posts. You must be a very unhappy person.

Please, feel free to smoke. And rape, and whatever. I have no idea what your point is.

mm