31 replies to this topic

[maineman]

Roger, that is a truly sad story and I am sorry for you. Bad medicine is bad medicine and is sadly a part of life. Doctors are human and prone to mistakes. We have yet to discover some machine like Bones had on Star Trek that scanned the body in a second and told him all he needed to know. We have a system in place of responsiblity. That doctor should have been sued for negligence if, in fact, the record shows that the give and take betweeen patient and doctor was improper. Let's hope he learned from his mistake and helped others or was so negligent that his license to practice was revoked. We all have stories like this. I'm not sure it "proves" anything. My father told me one day when I was about 11 years old driving in a car, we were stopped at a red light and he turned to me and said, "Son, what ever you do, do it well".... may have been the most he ever "emoted"... the light turned green and we drove on and never spoke of it again. Wish I had a chance to ask him what was going through his mind that day before he died at age 57 from a heart attack which he thought was indigestion. As an aside, diagnosing ovarian cancer is tough. Look at Gilda Radner's story, or Madeline Kahn, 2 smart women with a ton of money, both who got misdiagnosed and died.... sad. Should every woman with belly pain have a blood test for ovarian cancer and a CAT Scan and Ultrasound? We don't have the answer for that yet.... mm

[OEXCHAOS]

BTW, there's nothing wrong with seeing a doc, and an lot right with it. The every sniffle visit nonsense isn't going to get any complaints from docs, but it sure drives up health insurance costs. There are a LOT of things that one can't take care of oneself (at least the first time) but probably don't need a doc, either. I've done many of them to myself. Cuts, hooks, sprains and strains, etc. If you're troubled by minor colds, minor viruses, and stuff like that, you probably don't need to even go to WMT, but it's a way to put yourself at ease without blowing your deductible. M

[stocks]

Mayor Thomas M. Menino embarked on a highly public campaign yesterday to block CVS Corp. and other retailers from opening medical clinics inside their stores, an effort that exposed a rift between Menino and the state's public health commissioner, a longtime ally.

Menino blasted state regulators for paving the way Wednesday for the in-store clinics, which are designed to provide treatment for sore throats, poison ivy, and other minor illnesses.

The decision by the state Public Health Council, "jeopardizes patient safety," Menino said in a written statement. "Limited service medical clinics run by merchants in for-profit corporations will seriously compromise quality of care and hygiene. Allowing retailers to make money off of sick people is wrong."

http://www.boston.co...s_in_retailers/

[maineman]

100 years ago (roughly) pharmacists made whatever they felt like in the back room. And sold it for "whatever ails you"... most of the ingredients included morphine, cocaine, pepper, licorice and related stuff. Coca Cola started as a way to draw folks in. It was a mixture of sugar and cocaine. Morphine syrups were widely used. The now famous "Robitussin" came from concoctions designed to loosen up phlegm from "colds" or tuberculosis. Many of those products helped to launch huge corporations, purveyors of useless over the counter products like all the "cold and cough" remedies, to pills for "cramps" and back aches, head aches, etc. The FDA is still trying to pull some of that crap off the shelf. Only recently did they have the money and guts to remove the stuff for sale to kids, after one dead kid too many. Granted there are those who argue that we should still be able to walk in and ask for morphine and cocaine from the pharmacist, like in the "good old days".... i'll leave that "discussion" alone for now.... The more I think about it the more I like the idea of these clinics.... you get what you pay for..... Do you really think an employee of CVS or Wal Mart is going to tell a person with a fever of 101 who just payed 59 bucks she has a "cold" and needs to go home and get some rest and some chicken soup? Or do you think they are going to point them towards some "remedy for what ails you"? mm

[bigtrader]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[Rogerdodger]

Do you really think an employee of CVS or Wal Mart is going to tell a person with a fever of 101 who just payed 59 bucks she has a "cold" and needs to go home and get some rest and some chicken soup? Or do you think they are going to point them towards some "remedy for what ails you"?

I see your point. They may prescribe one of them thar $4 Walmart perscriptions for the big profit margin.
How much do you Docs make on perscriptions?

You may be letting your prejudice show just a bit.
Have you considered that there will be more access to the medical system because of Walmart's clinics?
Many folks who don't have insurance don't have a doctor and may have a difficult time even getting one to accept them as a new patient, and NOT ANY TIME SOON!
Also the ease of a walk in clinic and the certainty of knowing the moderate cost of the "office visit" may get some folks the help they need who otherwise might do without.

Think outside the box and see the potential benefit to the millions of uninsured with such an easy medical option.

And remember, there is a difference between efficacy and effectiveness.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 13 January 2008 - 01:51 PM.

[maineman]

The short answer is I still believe in my "profession"... but that discussion will never fly here because mostly folks bad mouth doctors these days or tell of horrible stories and really have no idea what it is most of us do. The longer answer is that its not the 4 dollar prescription, but the 20 dollar bottle of RObitussin or Alka Seltzer cold and flu, or Alka Seltzer "Immune Booster" that they are going to sell. Also, the missed serious diseases, etc.. And we do not sell medicine to our patients. It is taboo here. The only ones who do are the chiropractors who sell unregulated Vitamins and "supplements"... The other day a patient brought in a can of "Re-Live" powder the chiropractor sold them for a LOT of money. According to the label it had a few vitamins, and some "secret" formula that included licorice and rhubarb roots. Pure crap. Another chiropractor was selling VERY expensive "vitamins" that had ground up sheep ovaries and testicles. Last I heard some docs in Florida were able to sell some penicillin from the office, but I'm not up on all the state regulations. Look, as you know I think medicine is in bad need of a fix. The CVS and Walmarts aren't going to fix it. They are just going to profit off the problem, not add to the solution. mm

[Rogerdodger]

"Also, the missed serious diseases, etc.. " My sister-in-law did not go to Walmart for her missed ovarian cancer. Doctors have a reputation for thinking that they are... Never mind.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 13 January 2008 - 03:11 PM.

[maineman]

You know Roger, I think you're a pretty smart guy. But there is something up with this doctor-racism business I don't understand. Maybe you can enlighten me. It takes 4 years of college with good to excellent grades in difficult subjects. Acceptance to medical school is quite hard. A lot of spots go unfilled. It takes 4 years of medical school, long hours, frequent testing. National Boards are taken not once, not twice, but 3 times over several years. 4 years! We're not talking of 4 years spent lounging around toking joints and doing shots, but ungodly hours in school, classes, study time, hospital wards, clinics, etc. etc. After those 8 years it takes at least 3 post graduate years to get certified in Family Practice or General Practice. There is NO PLACE in the USA that will offer you a job at that point unless you have passed or are at least signed up to take the NATIONAL boards in Family Practice or Internal Medicine. If you stay in those fields of medicine you are required to continue taking between 50 and 100 hours of ongoing education ANNUALLY (this is state-dependent). And you are now required to REPEAT the NATIONAL boards. Depending on the specialty this is either every 5 or 10 years. In addition you have to have your office open to inspection by Private Insurers and Public, like Medicare and Medicaid. They are allowed to examine your procedures and charts. Your prescriptions are followed by national watchdogs, including the DEA for narcotics. Any error is reported to a NATIONAL database where you can look up and see if your doctor has ever been sued, or found negligent. In addition, in order to admit a patient to a hospital that hospital will do its own due diligence and monitor your activity there. If you choose to continue towards advanced degrees this could take an additional 2 to 5 years, depending on Gastroenterology, Cardiology, Pulmonology, Neurology, Oncology, etc. and these are only the MEDICAL fields. Passing those boards and maintaining proficiency there is rigorous, to say the least. For SURGICAL fields, the MINIMUM is 5 years AFTER 4 years of medical school for basic surgery. More for cardiac, pulmonary, neurosurgery, etc. There is no other profession that takes so much training, or is required to continue training. There is no other profession that is so open to outsiders looking over our shoulders. We are required to remain knowledgeable, personable, and available. Most of my colleagues work long, arduous hours. We are in and out of the hospital night and day. We call patients at home. We ask for help from experts in the field. We rarely have lunch. We rarely get home in time for supper. We work hard. We try to help and we are pretty darn good at what we do. For some time now it has been a "cute" thing to rag on "doctors" as if we were all cut from the same cloth. I think you are smarter than that. Anytime, anywhere there are some who are off...miss diagnoses, prescribe wrong treatments, don't seem to care, etc. We know this. We police ourselves. We pay huge malpractice premiums. We set higher and higher standards. We set tougher and tougher guidelines. You know, and shame on you if you don't, that on balance the quality of care, knowledge, sincerity, earnestness, and excellence outweighs the occassional screw up a million to one. I challenge anyone to show that "doctors" suck, that our lives are not better off, that YOUR life is not better off. Show me that kind of integrity in Law, Stock Market analysts, Stock Newsletter writers, Wal Mart executives, Congressman, Priests, Vitamin Corporations, Lead-paint toy makers, cops, truck drivers, etc. etc. Look, if you don't like "doctors" take care of yourself! DON'T go to doctors. Why put yourself in the hands of us morons? Us this-interested baboons? Let's all just make fun of all the golf club swinging, country club joining, yacht-owning douche bags who are living the life or riley making money off the stupid public. You know, all those hundreds of millions of stupid people who "let themselves" get sick and then "let themselves" be taken advantage of by us doctors..... According to much of what I read here the reason people are sick anyway is because they either arent' eating right, or taking the right mix of yeast, grains, proteins and vitamins...right? So, really its the public who are the morons.... we're just taking advantage of them, so kudos to us! Do I have this right? mm

[OEXCHAOS]

Look, as you know I think medicine is in bad need of a fix. The CVS and Walmarts aren't going to fix it. They are just going to profit off the problem, not add to the solution.

mm

No disrespect intended, but just what do you think you and your colleagues are doing? Last I heard, you guys aren't charities and in fact, you expect your practice to make a profit.

Profit is what will fix the problem. It's called FREEDOM, and if one believes in it, one allows the market to find solutions.

Mark