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Are certain lives in danger?


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#21 milbank

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 11:01 PM

So far the panic has been much greater than the crash. So far this has been a pretty mild bear market as far as bear markets go. I wouldn't expect this much concern over a situation by lawmakers without people lying sidewalks bleeding.


It's too late in the evening here on the east coast for me to explain it all to you John. Big day tomorrow.

Edited by milbank, 21 September 2008 - 11:02 PM.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw


"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."
--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#22 IYB

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 12:31 AM

I've always believed that if someone could and would put these conspiracy theories into a well written novel, it would be a runnaway best seller of unprecidented proportions. And can you imagine the box office for the film? The global monetary network unveiled for all to see. The puppeteers exposed. Orchestrated deception, coercion, treachery, intrigue, murder, covert communication and codes, clandestine channels, manipulation, raw power. The Da Vinci Code would pale by comparison to the this story. :o It really would!
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.” Charles Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

#23 Sentient Being

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 02:35 AM

So far the panic has been much greater than the crash. So far this has been a pretty mild bear market as far as bear markets go. I wouldn't expect this much concern over a situation by lawmakers without people lying sidewalks bleeding.


It's too late in the evening here on the east coast for me to explain it all to you John. Big day tomorrow.



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#24 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 08:21 AM

James, My read: nobody really cares about stock guys getting hurt. This one is different, though. This has direct ties to the little guy--Mortgages and to a less extent Money Market Funds. When you can tie an investment issue directly to a "Main St. issue" during an election year, you have the seeds of 100% agreement. It's more important than life and death. It's POLITCAL life and death. M

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#25 James Quillian

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 08:57 AM

James,

My read: nobody really cares about stock guys getting hurt. This one is different, though. This has direct ties to the little guy--Mortgages and to a less extent Money Market Funds.

When you can tie an investment issue directly to a "Main St. issue" during an election year, you have the seeds of 100% agreement.

It's more important than life and death. It's POLITCAL life and death.

M


I don't necessarily disagree with you are anyone else for that matter.

But, I don't hear the little guy complaining. Further, I fail to see how the little guy us getting helped by any of this.
The whole crisis started with property prices peeking out and losses being passed back to the the lenders.
The current scenario seems to amount to passing losses to the taxpayers, because they are all that is left.
Grandma and Grandpa haven't been complaining.
In my new life as a High School teacher, I am in contact with more ordinary people than I ever was at home in my trading room. The public seems oblivious to the whole thing.

Personally I haven't been hurt by any of it.


James

#26 milbank

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 09:25 AM

That they are oblivious is irrelevant.
Why would you think they would have a handle on the details of collateralized debt obligation products and their blow-up?
It doesn't change the magnitude of the problem.
There is blood on the streets. It's on Wall St. Had this aspect of the implosion not been dealt with, the next rupture would have been a carotid artery and that would have not only overwhelmed Wall St. but, overwhelmed Main St. with blood.
Blook will be running on Main St. It just doesn't begin in earnest until next year.

To add an anadotal regarding "Grandma and Grandpa," my mother lives in a senior community. I would say their retirement incomes are a little above "ordinary" as is their grasp of the world. They are worried about their pensions and fixed income investments as well as the rise in energy and food costs.

Ignorance may be "bliss" but, it' still ignorance.

Edited by milbank, 22 September 2008 - 09:32 AM.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw


"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."
--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#27 IndexTrader

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 09:45 AM

Nothing has directly impacted the majority of the people yet, so they aren't complaining. And too, while you might think that there would be some outrage at the dismantling of any semblance of a free market system, no one really understands why capitalism is or should be important to them philosophically. Is anything regarding the philosophy of capitalism taught in our high schools or colleges? I think not. You might even think there would be some outrage that the reason for this bailout is being kept "secret". The people for some reason aren't qualified to know. So bottomline, the liberals have done their job well. It started in the educational system, such that at this point we have a population of sheep, willing led down the road to increasing governmental interference, and nationalization of key industries. IT

#28 milbank

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:18 AM

I see it as the conservatives finally getting their wish to wipe out social programs like medicaid and social security amongst other programs that assist poorer Americans. Deregulation isn't part of the liberal philosophy. It's about government protecting the less powerful from the most powerful. Seems like the former is getting the short end of the stick as "unfettered capitalism" has turned into "socializing the losses."

Edited by milbank, 22 September 2008 - 10:21 AM.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw


"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."
--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


#29 IndexTrader

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:34 AM

I see it as the conservatives finally getting their wish to wipe out social programs like medicaid and social security amongst other programs that assist poorer Americans. Deregulation isn't part of the liberal philosophy. It's about government protecting the less powerful from the most powerful. Seems like the former is getting the short end of the stick as "unfettered capitalism" has turned into "socializing the losses."


I disagree with your post, but I'll play along. First, I'm not sure where you saw "unfettered capitalism". But rather than argue that point, I assume then that we'll considerable outrage from the liberals over the bailout plan. I presume that liberals will recommend that the free market be left to operate here.

IT

#30 milbank

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Posted 22 September 2008 - 10:44 AM

I see it as the conservatives finally getting their wish to wipe out social programs like medicaid and social security amongst other programs that assist poorer Americans. Deregulation isn't part of the liberal philosophy. It's about government protecting the less powerful from the most powerful. Seems like the former is getting the short end of the stick as "unfettered capitalism" has turned into "socializing the losses."


I disagree with your post, but I'll play along. First, I'm not sure where you saw "unfettered capitalism". But rather than argue that point, I assume then that we'll considerable outrage from the liberals over the bailout plan. I presume that liberals will recommend that the free market be left to operate here.

IT


Interesting. I thought that was a conservative philosophy. Actually, the Democrats are looking for greater legislative oversight of the Treasury Department, more direct assistance for homeowners and limits on the pay of top executives whose firms seek help amongst other things.*

* http://www.nytimes.c...amp;oref=slogin

Edited by milbank, 22 September 2008 - 10:49 AM.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
--George Bernard Shaw


"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."
--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe