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here's the bailout deal: will this pig with lipstick fly?


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#1 humble1

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 04:02 AM

this is the reuters link with the plan as agreed to by congressional negotiators:

http://www.reuters.c...ndChannel=10112

my blab: the tranche idea will be a downer because folks will focus on the $250 billion and wonder what happens after that.

your thoughts? do you support or oppose the plan as outlined?

the outcry throughout the land is still shrill. nobody wants to help out the trashy mortgage brokers and scummy bankers who have been cheating them.

do you?

Edited by humble1, 28 September 2008 - 04:05 AM.


#2 dasein

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 04:34 AM

the one good thing i read - "Democrats jettisoned proposals that would have put money into a trust fund for affordable housing and would have allowed judges to alter the terms of mortgages for bankrupt borrowers, according to aides." they never considered a different approach, like Roubinis or Hussman or a whole string of others - they just "pallatized" what they were told to deliver. I am very worried, there are trillions this doesnt address, and it is picking up momentum overseas - eg. Fortis, Bingley in europe, and lord knows when it will hit DB, CS and UBS, which have been conspicuously absent from bidding on any firesale assets
best,
klh

#3 humble1

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 04:36 AM

after reading this washington post article (they should know!) i am starting to wonder if the deal IS a deal. pelosi says she will post it on the www at least 24 hours before a vote. and blunt says he has to run it by his caucus.

i applaud that, but i don't think the feedback is going to be pleasant.

;)

http://www.washingto...ml?hpid=topnews

Edited by humble1, 28 September 2008 - 04:38 AM.


#4 dasein

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 05:40 AM

From Ray Merriman, an FYI -
http://www.markettim...ts/20080929.php

excerpts:
Are you kidding? I mean, seriously, as a Financial Astrologer, or student of Astrology, would you really recommend the White House and Congress to rush through a $700B bailout agreement that could bankrupt the country in a “New York minute,” just as Mercury is starting its retrograde motion (September 24-October 15)? Basic Astrology 101 teaches us not to make hasty decisions under Mercury retrograde, for inevitably (or so it seems), the matters agreed to do not work out well, or at the very least, require substantial modification afterwards. To say that not all the facts are known in this “Financial Rescue” proposal of Treasury Secretary Hank Paulsen, would be an understatement. In somewhat typical Aries fashion (Paulsen is an Aries), the Treasury Secretary warns that failure to act at once will send the economy into a serious recession, an economic crisis. Not that anyone who has been reading this column for the past nine years would be surprised, but still, when the fullness of the crisis hits, the last thing you want to do is to compound previous mistakes by making agreements in haste before all the ramifications are considered clearly. And that is exactly the danger posed when Mercury is retrograde – especially when Venus (and soon Mars) are in the economic-crisis sign of Scorpio, and most especially when Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto are quickly moving into their T-square formation, a pattern that has not been seen since 1930-1931.

The new moon in Libra takes place on Monday, September 29. Perhaps there will be an agreement by then, for new moons are favorable times to begin new efforts. But then again, maybe not...Our cardinal sign president and Treasury Secretary warn us that we have no time to wait! Cardinal signs tend to want it done yesterday (except Libras). Is it more urgent that we come to an agreement immediately that may be prone to more errors and mistakes, or take the time necessary to make a more informed decision over something so important? Do we really want to have taxpayers (you and me) taking on the risk of bailing out the financial and banking woes, or is there a way these institutions can be organized to save the very financial system that have jeopardized through their questionable practices? To do the former would be totally consistent with the last 7 years “Reign of Errors.” However, the later alternative may not even be possible, given the dire straits before us.

But make no mistake: this is a real financial and banking crisis. Even longer-term than the positive Jupiter-Saturn trine, is the forthcoming 45-year opposition of Saturn and Uranus (November 4, 2008- July 26, 2010) , followed by the 126-year square of Uranus and Pluto (2012-2015). This is a different world than anything we have seen since the Great Depression. ..The investment community is scared, which is also the nature of Saturn in opposition to Uranus, which will be even more exaggerated next year when Pluto (debt and more debt) forms a square to both. Jupiter will conjunct Neptune next year too, so once again we will hear the exhortations that the economy and banking system are sound and resilient. Our leaders stated the same in 1929 and 1930, and again all last year and even into Monday, September 15, when Mr. Paulsen went on TV and shook his head back and forth and proclaimed exactly that - while looking at the floor.

With Uranus involved, there are going to be more unexpected shocks to the economy. With Pluto involved, there are going to be more banks going under as a result of bad debts and bad (even corrupt) monetary policies of the past. But with Saturn involved, there is the opportunity to lay a new foundation built on solid, practical, monetary principles. There is no “magic” with Saturn (well, there is, but that is another story). There is no miraculous recovery under long-term Saturn signatures. But there is the laying of a new groundwork that, over time, can be strong and resilient, the very qualities our leaders assured were present just a week ago, but they obviously did not believe. Saturn represents honor and integrity, and the willingness to work with truth, and not deception. In every economic collapse throughout history, there is fraud and deception and misuse of power. In every rebuilding effort, there is hard work, endurance and patience, led by people who are committed to working with the Saturnian principles of truth and integrity. Once again, we are at the crossroads of a very important directional change in America, and in fact the entire world. We are on the brink of the Cardinal Climax, 2008-2015. Here are the two paths. Make your choice. We are either on the “Eve of Destruction,” as we were in 1965-66 and 1930-1931, in which we can choose to do nothing but sit back, complain and blame, and watch it all fall apart. Or we are prepared and willing to choose leaders who will co-create a long-term plan to tear it down and rebuild it right.
best,
klh

#5 humble1

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 06:00 AM

thanks very much for that! i had not seen it and am pleased that his VST (into mid oct) and his VLT into 2012 agree with much of my own work from other nesting cycles. (i know many folks here do not care for astro, but i repeat: most of those who follow astro DO NOT BELIEVE that the planets control things any more than a clock does. these are simply cycles that have worked in the past and are part of cycle analysis.)

#6 VolPivots

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 08:18 AM

some of my thoughts: 1) a limit on executive pay and the issuing of warrants disincents troubled institutions from participating....they'd better not wait 'til its too late as we've recently seen with the speed of stock declines and credit cutoffs. wachovia and fortis are the 2 latest "victims". 2) Paulson has obviously had this plan in the works for some time now......I wonder how fast it gets executed. Instead of being shocked-n-awed, are we about to get bazooka'd? 3) Amen to the stock warrant requirement....taxpayers should benefit from any capital gains. 4) Amen to oversight and controls put in place. I trust that Paulson's not too thrilled with those in place. Any deals done with GS will face intense scrutiny. Of course they could always create some offshore shell company to park all the toxic assets (ToxiCo?) and then do a deal with the gov't :devil: 5) Have mixed feelings about assisting irresponsible homeowners with mortgage breaks, but the system should have been tight enough to prevent them from owning overbloated mortgages in the 1st place, so they're not entirely at fault. other random thoughts: Now this is supposed to calm markets and offer a solution to the crisis.....what happens if (more likely when) another major fails when just about all the bullets have been spent? How will the markets react? Will firms offering credit/lending to other instititutions loosen their purse strings? Doubtful....we seem to be in an environment/cycle of ongoing risk reduction/deleveraging, resulting in further illiquidity. And will this "solution" prevent a seemingly inevitable recession? Slow moving locomotive takes time to turnaround...... Two long-term beneficiaries: JPM and BAC seem to be the big winners so far in a consolidating market. I always thought that JPM would be one of the firms with the highest risk of failure with its HUGE credit-default-swap book, but perhaps they're LONG all those CDSs? Finally, why do MS bonds continue to trade at huge discounts to par value? I haven't looked at GS bonds, but wondering how they're faring as well.

#7 cgnx

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:17 AM

What a space cadet.




From Ray Merriman, an FYI -
http://www.markettim...ts/20080929.php

excerpts:
Are you kidding? I mean, seriously, as a Financial Astrologer, or student of Astrology, would you really recommend the White House and Congress to rush through a $700B bailout agreement that could bankrupt the country in a “New York minute,” just as Mercury is starting its retrograde motion (September 24-October 15)? Basic Astrology 101 teaches us not to make hasty decisions under Mercury retrograde, for inevitably (or so it seems), the matters agreed to do not work out well, or at the very least, require substantial modification afterwards. To say that not all the facts are known in this “Financial Rescue” proposal of Treasury Secretary Hank Paulsen, would be an understatement. In somewhat typical Aries fashion (Paulsen is an Aries), the Treasury Secretary warns that failure to act at once will send the economy into a serious recession, an economic crisis. Not that anyone who has been reading this column for the past nine years would be surprised, but still, when the fullness of the crisis hits, the last thing you want to do is to compound previous mistakes by making agreements in haste before all the ramifications are considered clearly. And that is exactly the danger posed when Mercury is retrograde – especially when Venus (and soon Mars) are in the economic-crisis sign of Scorpio, and most especially when Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto are quickly moving into their T-square formation, a pattern that has not been seen since 1930-1931.

The new moon in Libra takes place on Monday, September 29. Perhaps there will be an agreement by then, for new moons are favorable times to begin new efforts. But then again, maybe not...Our cardinal sign president and Treasury Secretary warn us that we have no time to wait! Cardinal signs tend to want it done yesterday (except Libras). Is it more urgent that we come to an agreement immediately that may be prone to more errors and mistakes, or take the time necessary to make a more informed decision over something so important? Do we really want to have taxpayers (you and me) taking on the risk of bailing out the financial and banking woes, or is there a way these institutions can be organized to save the very financial system that have jeopardized through their questionable practices? To do the former would be totally consistent with the last 7 years “Reign of Errors.” However, the later alternative may not even be possible, given the dire straits before us.

But make no mistake: this is a real financial and banking crisis. Even longer-term than the positive Jupiter-Saturn trine, is the forthcoming 45-year opposition of Saturn and Uranus (November 4, 2008- July 26, 2010) , followed by the 126-year square of Uranus and Pluto (2012-2015). This is a different world than anything we have seen since the Great Depression. ..The investment community is scared, which is also the nature of Saturn in opposition to Uranus, which will be even more exaggerated next year when Pluto (debt and more debt) forms a square to both. Jupiter will conjunct Neptune next year too, so once again we will hear the exhortations that the economy and banking system are sound and resilient. Our leaders stated the same in 1929 and 1930, and again all last year and even into Monday, September 15, when Mr. Paulsen went on TV and shook his head back and forth and proclaimed exactly that - while looking at the floor.

With Uranus involved, there are going to be more unexpected shocks to the economy. With Pluto involved, there are going to be more banks going under as a result of bad debts and bad (even corrupt) monetary policies of the past. But with Saturn involved, there is the opportunity to lay a new foundation built on solid, practical, monetary principles. There is no “magic” with Saturn (well, there is, but that is another story). There is no miraculous recovery under long-term Saturn signatures. But there is the laying of a new groundwork that, over time, can be strong and resilient, the very qualities our leaders assured were present just a week ago, but they obviously did not believe. Saturn represents honor and integrity, and the willingness to work with truth, and not deception. In every economic collapse throughout history, there is fraud and deception and misuse of power. In every rebuilding effort, there is hard work, endurance and patience, led by people who are committed to working with the Saturnian principles of truth and integrity. Once again, we are at the crossroads of a very important directional change in America, and in fact the entire world. We are on the brink of the Cardinal Climax, 2008-2015. Here are the two paths. Make your choice. We are either on the “Eve of Destruction,” as we were in 1965-66 and 1930-1931, in which we can choose to do nothing but sit back, complain and blame, and watch it all fall apart. Or we are prepared and willing to choose leaders who will co-create a long-term plan to tear it down and rebuild it right.
[/quote]
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#8 Data

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:29 AM

they also plan to impose a 0.25% tax on securities transactions to pay for this.

Edited by Data, 28 September 2008 - 09:29 AM.


#9 HoseB

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Posted 28 September 2008 - 09:40 AM

they also plan to impose a 0.25% tax on securities transactions to pay for this.


If they do, it will drive business overseas...

More Dumbass legislation...
40,000 headmen couldn't make me change my mind....