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Are We Living It?


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#1 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:08 AM

http://www.investors...e-Not-Vice.aspx

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#2 maineman

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:24 AM

One of my favorite books. Re-read it in May. But, it is a book, a work of fiction. And the comparisons pale. In the USA today the wealthy enjoy unprecedented advantage, made even more so by the Bush era tax cuts. Corporations are left alone and given tax advantages. Some of the very large corporations are in quite deep politically and push the strings (think Goldman, for instance). So while you can infer some conspiracy issues, such as the attempt by the government to keep the banks and some autos from collapsing as a parallel to those policies in Atlas Shrugged, we're really not dealing with the same issues. Still, if anyone reading this thread hasn't read Atlas Shrugged, its mandatory reading, okay? It should probably be in your terms of service agreement as in "You agree to read Atlas Shrugged before reading or posting on traders talk". mm
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#3 Rogerdodger

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:26 PM

Are we living it? Are the cities going dark while friends of politicians continue to loot from the producers? Tulsa has had to turn off it's street lights. It's been fatal for several souls. Meanwhile government workers demand their benefits and increases.

#4 Dex

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 08:59 PM

I think we are closer to The Fountainhead

http://en.wikipedia....he_Fountainhead

Ellsworth Toohey, a columnist for The New York Banner (a yellow press-style newspaper owned by Gail Wynand) and author of the popular column One Small Voice, is an outspoken socialist, who is covertly rising to power by shaping public opinion through his column and his circle of influential associates, and whose quite openly proclaimed designs are not understood or taken seriously. Toohey sets out to destroy Roark through a smear campaign he spearheads at the Banner. As the first step, Toohey convinces a weak-minded businessman named Hopton Stoddard to hire Roark as the designer for a temple dedicated to the human spirit and gives Roark carte blanche to design it as he sees fit. Roark designs the temple, with a naked statue of Dominique, which creates the first public outcry against Howard and Stoddard is (with Toohey's encouragement) appalled at what Roark has built. Toohey further manipulates Stoddard into suing Roark for general incompetence and fraud. At Roark’s trial, every prominent architect in New York (including Keating) testifies that Roark’s style is unorthodox and illegitimate. Dominique defends Roark, but Stoddard wins the case and Roark loses his business again.
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#5 maineman

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:16 PM

Are you implying this is a direct result of a particular administration or all government? Government has been bloated and inefficient since I was born! (sometime in the 1950s...)

Are we living it?
Are the cities going dark while friends of politicians continue to loot from the producers?
Tulsa has had to turn off it's street lights.
It's been fatal for several souls.
Meanwhile government workers demand their benefits and increases.


He who laughs laughs laughs laughs.

My Blog -Maineman Market Advice

#6 Rogerdodger

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:23 PM

Are you implying this is a direct result of a particular administration or all government?

Not at all.
I think the problem is professional politicians who have no concept of what it means to run a business or make a payroll.
Like the people who have never raised children think they know all the answers.
These same people lacking "real world" experience also teach our children thus I've heard people say that they think that they have a right to a doctor's time and services anytime they want it because it's a "right".
But they think the doctor should pay them for their time and services.
Something is missing in their education and reasoning ability.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 21 July 2010 - 09:33 PM.


#7 salsabob

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 11:11 PM

In the years leading up to 2008—09's financial meltdown, government control over mortgages, interest rates and America's banking system was at an all-time high.


Oh please, what a bunch of hooey! At the time, the "government control" was letting the financial elites do whatever the hell they wanted - Ayn would have been orgasmic.

Unfortunately, the elite had absolutely no interest in being 'producers' when they could instead be billionaire financiers using a host of bags of tricks to enrich themselves beyond any rationale boundary at the expense of the country. The sheeple that supported this did so under the mistaken belief that they too could be mini-me Gordon Geckos while tossing back some beers with the Prez and eating a side order of freedom fries.

Now that the grown ups are in charge and trying to thread a way through this deflationary environment caused by the last 30 years of the increasing grip of Idiot America, the sheeple are being afforded the luxury to whine yet another day about big bad government. Perpetual adolescence enshrined.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.


John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?

#8 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 07:54 AM

In the years leading up to 2008—09's financial meltdown, government control over mortgages, interest rates and America's banking system was at an all-time high.


Oh please, what a bunch of hooey! At the time, the "government control" was letting the financial elites do whatever the hell they wanted - Ayn would have been orgasmic.


Have you even read Rand?

I have to assume not, because that statement is remarkably ignorant, or dishonest.

M

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#9 salsabob

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:17 AM

In the years leading up to 2008—09's financial meltdown, government control over mortgages, interest rates and America's banking system was at an all-time high.


Oh please, what a bunch of hooey! At the time, the "government control" was letting the financial elites do whatever the hell they wanted - Ayn would have been orgasmic.


Have you even read Rand?

I have to assume not, because that statement is remarkably ignorant, or dishonest.

M

Yes, a couple of times - with the one time most fondly remembered being the required reading during a course that basically came down to James' pragmatism versus silly philosphies such as Rand's Objectivism.

Really boils down to -

http://en.wikipedia....nt_and_business

Atlas Shrugged endorses the belief that a society's best hope rests on adopting a system of pure laissez-faire.


Imagine a world where everyone wakes up and decides on an individual basis what side of the road they'll drive down today. :swoon: Imagine similar decisions in every other part of your life and those that happen to cross your path.

After the initial die-off, perhaps those that remain might decide that there are some pragmatic government functions. :rolleyes:
John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?

#10 Dex

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 09:45 AM

Oh please, what a bunch of hooey! At the time, the "government control" was letting the financial elites do whatever the hell they wanted - Ayn would have been orgasmic.


QUOTE
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.


The above is why I think we are more like The Fountainhead than Atlas Shrugged. The quote show the absence of knowledge of Ayn Rand yet the techniques of Toohey are there. And they can be read and listened to every day in news papers, TV and popular culture. There is no shame in voicing an opinion on subjects you know nothing about as long as you can incorporate Toohey's philosophy into your comments.

Ellsworth Toohey has won.

http://www.tysknews....g_ellsworth.htm
In a famous speech from Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, arch-villain Ellsworth Toohey explains one way to seize power over an entire country:

"Don't set out to raze all shrines — you'll frighten men. Enshrine mediocrity — and the shrines are razed . . . Kill by laughter. Laughter is an instrument of human joy. Learn to use it as a weapon of destruction. Turn it into a sneer. It's simple. Tell them to laugh at virtue. Don't let anything remain sacred in a man's soul — and his soul won't be sacred to him. Kill reverence and you've killed the hero in man" (p. 637).
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. "
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