53 replies to this topic

[Om_Namah_Shivay]

On side note I m atheist, which should say alot about me as I come from land of more than 800mn gods and goddesses

...and your forum ID is Om_Namah_Shivay?? Something does not add up

Ohh tats very simple shiva is the only /supra human being/ not depicted loftily, he is destroyer as well as creator. Honestly i was facinated when i found out he accepts marijuana/opium as offerings, i say here is someone to look upto:-)........

Edited by Om_Namah_Shivay, 02 October 2011 - 01:29 AM.

[NAV]

I trade for a living. I have gone through various dilemmas and conflicts before settling down on what works for me. To me, having a fixed goal on a trade, either a price target or profit target has not worked well. Having a daily profit goal has not worked either. Having a profit target or price target would mean cutting short on big trending moves and expecting more during a consolidation moves. Both leads to frustration - in the former case the frustration of missing a big move and in the latter case not achieving your set profit goals. Once you start accepting whatever the market gives i.e riding a move without preset expectations or bias, life gets easier. Once expectations and opinions about markets are taken out of the equation, it's becomes easier to ride the big moves and also to accept the losses in choppy zone. My 5 cents...

Edited by NAV, 02 October 2011 - 07:36 AM.

[TechMan]

Having a profit target or price target would mean cutting short on big trending moves and expecting more during a consolidation moves.

O.K. I see what happens here.

I didn't intend for this to be about "goal trading" or "target trading". For some reason, I've just realized this discussion started leaning towards that. I wasn't even paying attention to what OmNamahShivay was saying about trading targets till now.

I wouldn't have had the "home run" trades had I just robotically taken $38, for example, on each trade or sit idly waiting for my targets without looking at what type of pitch that the pitcher's giving me. If you see something right down the middle, you'd want to drive it even though your initial goal is to make contact. If a salesperson's goal is half a million, would he tell a new client that'd give him a million dollar contract to take a hike?

If the market's giving you something to drive it out of the park or a million-dollar contract, you'd take it.

I hope that clarifies.

[TMN]

i've read all posts with great interest, a lot of stuff came up but the one thing that should work for male, female, day traders, small accounts, large accounts etc etc is: % % % % % nothing is more neutral when it comes to managing expectations and money than %%%%%

[TechMan]

i've read all posts with great interest, a lot of stuff came up but the one thing that should work for male, female, day traders, small accounts, large accounts etc etc is:

% % % % %

nothing is more neutral when it comes to managing expectations and money than %%%%%

% % % % % ?

O.K. now that you've mentioned the % % % % %, I'd like to add that the $ $ $ $ $ or the # # # # # may be worthy of consideration as well.

[CLK]

I've found that hedging options with options does not work, maybe spreads but I've not gotten into those yet. Currently I'm hedging options with 3x ETFs or visa versa. It requires more money than I have to do it right like I want, and the 3 day settlement gets in the way big time, but it is working better, hedging options with options, you lose time on both. I understand setting a $500 stop on a $5000 futures contract, but unless one is trading deep in the money(the leverage is lost doing that) holding overnight with a little time decay and $1000 option position can realize a 50% drawdown. Extremely difficult to recover from that.

[TechMan]

the 3 day settlement gets in the way big time, but it is working better, hedging options with options, you lose time on both.

Not if you cash them in the next day. There's no 3 day settlement on options.

[DrSP]

I've found that hedging options with options does not work, maybe spreads but I've not gotten into those yet.
Currently I'm hedging options with 3x ETFs or visa versa. It requires more money than I have to do it right
like I want, and the 3 day settlement gets in the way big time, but it is working better, hedging options
with options, you lose time on both.

I understand setting a $500 stop on a $5000 futures contract, but unless one is trading deep in the money(the leverage
is lost doing that) holding overnight with a little time decay and $1000 option position can realize a 50% drawdown.

Extremely difficult to recover from that.

Open a margin account, but don't trade on margin. It is not possible to trade on a cash account with such wild fluctuations. I hope you have that control when you are looking at margin, atleast you are experienced enough. You might be saying evil thoughts towards margin, but resist it. If urge can't be controlled, IMO, it is not good to be in the market.

I am very skeptical about trading futures with any account less than 150K. You could get a drawdown of as much as 500$ or 1000$, which only sounds apt for an account the size of ~ 150k$. And considering how they toss the futures up and down, the drawdowns can come within no time. I confess that I cannot control emotion of being depressed, when I see a loss of more than 1000$ on a single day or so. I have paper traded futures, but very well decided that trading futures is not for me. My paper account is at 100% gain, in 1 1/2 year - I have only done 15 - 20 round trips, all are short 2 - 3 day trades. But, my brain tells me that futures trading is not apt for my real money account. Sleep is another factor. I wish to sleep well and I know that is not possible with futures trading.

Edited by DrSP, 02 October 2011 - 10:16 AM.

[zoropb]

I too trade for a living for many years and agree with both TM and Nav (both I respect as real pros) on lots of their points. Bottom line take what the market gives you based on your style and comfort level. There is no one way to make money in this biz but in my experience... If you cannot maintain at least a 1.5 sharpe level at end of year and a 20%+ return then something is wrong in your trading somewhere and needs adjustment if you plan on making a living in this biz. I think draw downs of over 30% is asking for a blow up at one point in your style. In fact few traders can come back from them. So what ever way you get there make sure you keep risk reward in check as you go and adjust. If not you will be a statistic in the 95% that cannot do this professionally and keep paying those that can.

Edited by zoropb, 02 October 2011 - 11:37 AM.

[DrWu]

I trade for a living. I have gone through various dilemmas and conflicts before settling down on what works for me. To me, having a fixed goal on a trade, either a price target or profit target has not worked well. Having a daily profit goal has not worked either. Having a profit target or price target would mean cutting short on big trending moves and expecting more during a consolidation moves. Both leads to frustration - in the former case the frustration of missing a big move and in the latter case not achieving your set profit goals. Once you start accepting whatever the market gives i.e riding a move without preset expectations or bias, life gets easier. Once expectations and opinions about markets are taken out of the equation, it's becomes easier to ride the big moves and also to accept the losses in choppy zone. My 5 cents...

Hi Nav,

I've noted that you scale-out in thirds on your trades. Is this not in effect some type of profit target? Just trying to understand. TIA

Later,
Wu