17 replies to this topic

[K Wave]

 

 

 

http://people.uncw.e...loffm/glubb.pdf

 

Interesting read...thanks for the link.

 

1776+250=2026....too close for comfort!

 

Unfortunately, all the things he describes about the decline phase are readily apparent now.....

[humbled]

 

 

 

 

 

Given Trumps strict immigration policies, foreigners are leaving the US. A new regulation will cause foreign students to leave if their courses go online due to the temporary coronavirus situation.

These students contribute tens of billions to the US economy. A lot of students buy/rent properties near their schools for housing.
https://thehill.com/...hools-go-online

 

Won't their leaving open up positions for US citizens to spend their money?

 

That is one way to look at it. Another is that the United States has been a destination for the best and brightest students around the world for many decades. They come here to a get a great education and, if we are lucky, they stay here after graduation, enriching the intellectual capital of our nation.

 

If they stay...right?

 

http://people.uncw.e...loffm/glubb.pdf

 

More than 1.5 million foreign graduates between 2008 and 2016 stayed and worked in the US after graduation. Fifty-three percent of them with degrees in STEM fields.

 

https://www.pewresea...duation-surges/

 

 

I don't see a downside to the USA.  A foreign student is replaced with a domestic.  A job that went to a foreign now goes to a domestic.

 

Considering the unemployment rate this is good for domestics.   What am I missing.

 

When/if the USA returns to a good employment rate the policy could be reversed.

 

If you believe that, no worries. I believe something different. I believe that we should always be looking to recruit the best and the brightest no matter where they are from. That has been the American project since its founding. A domestic has all of the advantages that come with being born here. They even benefit from the foreign students, who pay full sticker price for their education, enabling these institutions to give a discount to the domestics. Why should we give them another advantage by saying you don't have to compete in the job market with the best the world has to offer? Beyond that, I believe that you want to bring into our nation the spirit of those who are not afraid of picking up, leaving everything they know, and venturing abroad. I think the regular infusion of that spirit into our population helps give us our edge over those nations comprised mainly of the people who stayed.

[Dex]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given Trumps strict immigration policies, foreigners are leaving the US. A new regulation will cause foreign students to leave if their courses go online due to the temporary coronavirus situation.

These students contribute tens of billions to the US economy. A lot of students buy/rent properties near their schools for housing.
https://thehill.com/...hools-go-online

 

Won't their leaving open up positions for US citizens to spend their money?

 

That is one way to look at it. Another is that the United States has been a destination for the best and brightest students around the world for many decades. They come here to a get a great education and, if we are lucky, they stay here after graduation, enriching the intellectual capital of our nation.

 

If they stay...right?

 

http://people.uncw.e...loffm/glubb.pdf

 

More than 1.5 million foreign graduates between 2008 and 2016 stayed and worked in the US after graduation. Fifty-three percent of them with degrees in STEM fields.

 

https://www.pewresea...duation-surges/

 

 

I don't see a downside to the USA.  A foreign student is replaced with a domestic.  A job that went to a foreign now goes to a domestic.

 

Considering the unemployment rate this is good for domestics.   What am I missing.

 

When/if the USA returns to a good employment rate the policy could be reversed.

 

If you believe that, no worries. I believe something different. I believe that we should always be looking to recruit the best and the brightest no matter where they are from. That has been the American project since its founding. A domestic has all of the advantages that come with being born here. They even benefit from the foreign students, who pay full sticker price for their education, enabling these institutions to give a discount to the domestics. Why should we give them another advantage by saying you don't have to compete in the job market with the best the world has to offer? Beyond that, I believe that you want to bring into our nation the spirit of those who are not afraid of picking up, leaving everything they know, and venturing abroad. I think the regular infusion of that spirit into our population helps give us our edge over those nations comprised mainly of the people who stayed.

 

That's good until you are the domestic person out of work.

 

Also, why not just allow all foreign workers come here without restrictions, without concern about skill level,  and compete against domestic citizens?

[humbled]

The quote is getting a little long, so I'm just replying. We may have exhausted the value of the discussion, as we are at a philosophical loggerhead and could probably go on like this for a while. I believe we are in a global war for talent and acquiring as much of it as possible is best for this country in the long run, even if it means some domestics lose out to that talent in the job market. We don't need bodies, which is what we would get if we let all workers in; we need talent. Our domestic talent base is not providing enough engineers, scientist, coders, etc. Our college and university system provides an excellent way for recruiting the best and the brightest from abroad to fill those roles. Obviously, our talent bench has gotten a lot deeper 'thanks' to COVID-19. But I believe that will be a temporary problem in terms of the talent deficit we were experiencing before the pandemic.

 

Anyway, thanks for the debate. It's been a pleasure exploring this topic with you.

[pdx5]

Deport all non-citizen workers until US unemployment rate falls below 4%.

 

Adopt smart immigration policies of New Zealand, where immigrants are admitted only if there is a shortage of skills the immigrant brings, -or- the immigrant brings $1.5 Million US dollars to invest in NZ. On top of that every permanent immigrant MUST pass English proficiency test administered by the government. Result is NZ always has near full employment and not many immigrants ending up on welfare.

[Dex]

The quote is getting a little long, so I'm just replying. We may have exhausted the value of the discussion, as we are at a philosophical loggerhead and could probably go on like this for a while. I believe we are in a global war for talent and acquiring as much of it as possible is best for this country in the long run, even if it means some domestics lose out to that talent in the job market. We don't need bodies, which is what we would get if we let all workers in; we need talent. Our domestic talent base is not providing enough engineers, scientist, coders, etc. Our college and university system provides an excellent way for recruiting the best and the brightest from abroad to fill those roles. Obviously, our talent bench has gotten a lot deeper 'thanks' to COVID-19. But I believe that will be a temporary problem in terms of the talent deficit we were experiencing before the pandemic.

 

Anyway, thanks for the debate. It's been a pleasure exploring this topic with you.

 

If you change to the past tense I would agree with you.

The virus will change that ... fewer jobs.

 

Also; if you believe Black Lives Matter; then there is an obligation to reach out to the minority community and get them on the path to filling the need you describe.  Doing that will change the future for them more then anything else.

Edited by Dex, 07 July 2020 - 02:13 PM.

[Waver]

US kicking out foreign students due to their college only doing online courses such as Harvard is such a terrible policy.

Foreign students spends money in this country and to send that spending to over seas is just simply counter productive.

 

 

As for foreign workers, sure makes sense just hire domestic. Protectionism.

Problem here is that our education system is simply not that good and talent does not exist.

Businesses will suffer without the right talent.  Kicking the out will hurt and put businesses at a disadvantage.

 

If Americans want the jobs over foreign workers, get educated beyond what the school system provides.

The one caveat is that college education (which many businesses have as a mandatory minimum). The costs have gotten way out of line.

Unfortunately people will be left out when scholarship money runs out.

[risktaker]

https://boston.cbslo...online-classes/

Trump Administration Rescinds Rule On Foreign Students

BOSTON (AP) Facing eight federal lawsuits and opposition from hundreds of universities, the Trump administration on Tuesday rescinded a rule that would have required international students to transfer or leave the country if their schools held classes entirely online because of the pandemic.

The decision was announced at the start of a hearing in a federal lawsuit in Boston brought by Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. U.S. District Judge Allison Burroughs said federal immigration authorities agreed to pull the July 6 directive and return to the status quo.

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