13 replies to this topic

[calmcookie]

Dear Dr. Echo, I understand your viewpoint, but vehemently disagree. If I sustain traumatic injuries from, for example, a car accident, then YES, I would seek the help of a qualified medical team. But that is the only time I would want the help of an MD. I am able to look after all other circumstances (but agree that I am unusual in this regard). If I had cancer or diabetes or Lupus or Multiple Sclerosis or Arthritis or several other chronic or auto-immune related disorders, THEN I WOULD DEFINITELY NOT SEEK THE HELP OF CONVENTIONAL MEDICAL CARE. The point is mute as I clearly know how to prevent such conditions. Prevention is my passion. If someone already has sepsis or some other dire condition, then medical care may be a necessary COMPLEMENT to actions that the individual can also initiate ... to help their own immune system recover from the assault. Of course most children and many adults have no idea how to do this and few doctors have the time or motivation to educate patients about self care. I am not blaming doctors ... and I believe most doctors have good intentions. But the system is terribly flawed. I have no desire to argue, and my tone here is not angry ... I consider this a friendly debate and do not wish to offend ... you have a right to your opinion, but I will continue with my viewpoint: I am not a physician, but I have worked in several hospitals in Canada, Australia and the United States and I have seen terrible things happen in hospitals. I have seen doctors prescribe powerful drugs such as Prednisone to young, newly diagnosed Multiple Sclerosis patients. These drugs merely depress the immune system further and lead to a viscious cycle of repeat admissions and deteriorating health. I have seen diabetic patients put on high carbohydrate diets, labelled with the term "Brittle Diabetes" and end up on high doses of insulin, resulting in retinopathy, kidney failure and blindness. I have seen patients who have had multiple back surgeries and been put on so many drugs that no human could possibly understand the potential for negative interactions. I have seen patients with bleeding ulcers directly caused by drugs. And I have seen the same patients prescribed more drugs to treat the problem that was directly caused by the first recommendations. I have seen young children have brain surgery for epilepsy when a change of diet would have CURED their condition (see similiar true stories from John's Hopkins Medical Center in the Meryl Streep Movie entitled: First Do No Harm) I have seen Doctors who order multiple medical "tests" that do absolutely nothing for quality of life and seem to care only about getting people back for their next appointment ... nothing else. I have been to medical conferences where physicians are wined and dined on lobster dinners in exchange for listening to pharmaceutical reps describe their latest drugs. I have been to several American Diabetes Conferences where there is so much money being made on the suffering of others ... without a care about what really works. It's disgusting. I have seen children put on Ritalin for ADD (an utterly STUPID and made up diagnosis for kids who are simply poorly nourished). They end up on a lifetime of drugs ... ridiculous. Just like the new drug for RLS (restless leg syndrome). Another ridiculous diagnosis ... so we can make up the need for a drug to "cure" it. Heavens! If you're legs are crawling with RLS ... could it possibly a nutritional imbalance? Or, no, your legs are restless because of a shortage of drug ABC. Pleeeeeeese! It is absurd! I have seen men prescribed Viagra, because no one has the time or motivation to educate them about diet and cardiovascular health. I have seen patients prescribed Prosac and Zoloft when a simple dietary change could cure them of depression ... but no one has the time to educate people about essential fatty acids and their role in mental health. My own father had his life ruined by a surgeon in Scotland who did "exploratory surgery" for his ulcers. The doctor accidentally cut the common bile duct, which left my dad with a lifetime of misery and repeat hospital admissions, prior to his premature death because his digestive tract was in ruins (thanks to medical care). Most doctors are trained in the medical model ... a "fight disease" model. They are paid for prescribing drugs and recommending surgery. They are not health educators. You may be different ... perhaps you DO try to educate your patients. If so, I applaud you, but I have not seen much of this in my many years of hospital work. You think it is ludicrous to believe that people are worse off if they have MORE access to medical "care." Again, you have a right to that opinion, but I don't find it at all surprising. I wish you well, C.C.

Edited by calmcookie, 07 January 2006 - 03:48 PM.

[Echo]

CC, I too consider this a friendly debate and respect an individual's choice with regards to medical care. Just realize that your statement can't be generalized to the public. It is strictly your opinion and flies in the face of not only common sense, but carefully conducted scientific research. Your points are all examples of poor judgement or outcomes in individual cases and do not represent typical outcomes across the board. Just like any other field or profession in life, there will be doctors, nurses, therapists, technicians, assistants, etc who are poorly trained, poorly experienced, poorly motivated, poorly attentive, poorly communicative, poorly responsible, etc. The same is true for any other field. As a society, each professional has to look within themselves to avoid this and certain regulatory mechanisms are set in place to try to ensure this as much as possible. I am surprised that through your extensive experience, you have chosen only to focus on the small minority of bad apples, instead of the daily occurance of good that is done. You mentioned that prevention is your passion and I have to agree 100%. But my stance begins with when PREVENTION HAS FAILED, and you have a medically treatable illness. We have no debate that prevention is always the best policy. If you have a localized cancer that can be cured with 99% certainty with surgical resection, are you really going to try working on your diet or immune system with "natural" drugs. If you have kidney failure and you have worsening acidosis and potassium levels and will die in hours or days without dialysis, are you really going to treat this at home naturally? If you are having a heart attack, are you really going to dwell on the risks of angioplasty and refuse opening up the artery as quickly as possible? Now you can always point to some bad tragedy with surgery for cancer or complication with dialysis or the rare complication with angioplasty, but to make a blanket statement that these procedures universally cause harm and should at all costs be avoided is quite radical and simply not true. Yes, there are medical conferences where medical professionals are wined and dined by reps for various things, but don't you see that all over the business world. In fact, the AMA has for years a policy encouraging doctors to only accept things that can help with patient care. Anyway, I am certain we are going to have to agree to disagree, as I suspect your views are deeply ingrained. I just needed to throw out a little perspective. No disrespect intended. Cheers, Echo

Edited by Echo, 07 January 2006 - 05:38 PM.

[calmcookie]

Hello Echo, I wish I could agree with you, that these are isolated cases, but that has not been my experience. However, I think if we were to meet in person, there wouldn't be that much that we disagree on. Message board communication is far from ideal. But, since that won't occur ... on to trading. Be well, C.C.

Edited by calmcookie, 07 January 2006 - 05:55 PM.

[gman]

I have seen children put on Ritalin for ADD (an utterly STUPID and made up diagnosis for kids who are simply poorly nourished).  They end up on a lifetime of drugs ... ridiculous. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cookie,

In your opinion , for the children diagnosed with ADD or ADHD, what kind of diet should this child be place on? Meaning, what sould they eat and what should they avoid?

Also, from the essential fatty acid discussion, why is the liquid preferred over capsules? Also, is there a dietary deficiency that accounts for farmed salmon having the essential f.a. deficiency?

--John

PS As you can probably imagine, there is an intense debate amongst Texan fans (I live in Houston) as to whether the team should draft Vince Young or Reggie Bush (that's assuming they both decide to go pro). While it would be cool to see Vince leading the 'horns one more year...

[Echo]

Thank you CC and you be well too... and if you should ever need medical attention, I hope you find the best. I might add, that anytime poor medical judgment is applied, or unnecessary tests are done, or careless mistakes are made, that it is one time too many. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. On to trading.

[calmcookie]

Hello gman, Thank you for your question. I've replied in a personal message. Let me know if you have any other questions (or if you somehow do not receive the message). Best to you, C.C. (p.s. - I hope Vince stays!)

[Rogerdodger]

Last month, the New York Times reported the U.S. drug industry was turning to young, energetic cheerleaders to beef up drug sales in doctors' offices. Giving new meaning to a pyramid scheme, a New York Times article discussed how the pharmaceutical industry hires college cheerleaders as its drug representatives. “They don’t ask what the major is,” T. Lynn Williamson, a cheering advisor for University of Kentucky , said of the drug companies who turn to the school to find pompom pill pushers.

[Rogerdodger]

I have known some VERY GOOD doctors whom I would trust with my life.
But doctors are people. Half of them graduate in the bottom half of their class.
They can suffer from overwork, burnout, depression and all other ailments common to humans. They can even make mistakes.
They are not gods but are people with highly specialized education who can be very helpful.

On the other hand, I am very cautious of "natural" cures promoted by those who profit by their sales or who benefit in other ways.
Many remedies are beneficial, some benign, but others, especially taken in excess are harmful.
Or when taken to treat serious disease such as cancer instead of seeking medical treatment.
See Quackwatch.org

However I am a strong believer in the powers of placebo.
Tests have shown that if you believe a remedy will work then it is more likely to.

I have always felt that just the act of going to someone whom you believe has superior knowledge or powers, whether an herbalist, an African JuJu "witch doctor", or one with a white coat, stethoscope and diplomas, prepares your mind to begin the healing process regardless of their treatment.

I think I'm going to be sick. Where's a cheerleader when you need one?

Edited by Rogerdodger, 08 January 2006 - 10:34 AM.

[Echo]

 
  Last month, the New York Times reported the U.S. drug industry was turning to young, energetic cheerleaders to beef up drug sales in doctors' offices.
  Giving new meaning to a pyramid scheme, a New York Times article discussed how the pharmaceutical industry hires college cheerleaders as its drug representatives.
  “They don’t ask what the major is,” T. Lynn Williamson, a cheering advisor for University of Kentucky , said of the drug companies who turn to the school to find pompom pill pushers.
 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, but where the rubber hits the road is when you start talking about what advantage their drug offers over other competitors in the same drug family. If they can't put a coherent presentation together or answer questions intelligently, then, well, you know how much credibility they get at the end of the day.

[Echo]

I have known some VERY GOOD doctors whom I would trust with my life.
But doctors are people.  Half of them graduate in the bottom half of their class.
They can suffer from overwork, burnout, depression and all other ailments common to humans. They can even make mistakes.
They are not gods but are people with highly specialized education who can be very helpful.

Nicely put. Don't forget the variable interest in continuing medical education necessary to keep up with a rapidly evolving field. Those that shine, keep up with new developments.

On the other hand, I am very cautious of "natural" cures promoted by those who profit by their sales or who benefit in other ways.
Many remedies are beneficial, some benign, but others, especially taken in excess are harmful.
Or when taken to treat serious disease such as cancer instead of seeking medical treatment.

This is an important point, RD, and the bulk of these treatments are not regulated by the FDA or scientific community. Worse yet, doctors are not always in a position to know how various herbal medicines will interact with the known drugs they are prescribing, especially if the patient is taking a bunch of them.

No one tracks in a registry, how each herbal medicine interacts with others or in the zillion different combinations theoretically possible, including prescription meds. It is relatively uncharted territory and unwanted effects can and do occur. At least with prescription meds, a registry is kept and unusual side effects are reported to see if a pattern develops. The system isn't perfect, but it is better than no surveillence at all.

However I am a strong believer in the powers of placebo.
Tests have shown that if you believe a remedy will work then it is more likely to.

I have always felt that just the act of going to someone whom you believe has superior knowledge or powers, whether an herbalist, an African JuJu "witch doctor", or one with a white coat, stethoscope and diplomas, prepares your mind to begin the healing process regardless of their treatment.

Quite true. The powers of the brain are enormous. Just look at how some are able to quit addictions while others struggle. A firm commitment to health or healthy living can go a long way.

Echo