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Dr. Maineman - admitting diagnosis, cause of death COFFEE


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#1 calmcookie

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 09:11 AM

Hello Dr. Maineman,

You wrote:

I've been practicing Internal Medicine since becoming Board Certified in 1986. In all that time I've never once signed a death certificate "Due to Coffee". In fact, I've never admitted a patient to the hospital with an admitting diagnosis of "Coffee-related-illness". But, as a scientist committed to the principles of the scientific method I will always keep an open mind when the statistically proven and peer-reviewed studies teach me otherwise. Until then, as always, I'll go with science over testimonials. My patient's lives are on the line...

My reply:

I respectfully say that your statements make no sense at all. I've seen thousands of medical diagnois over the years and several "cause of death" statements, and just because a death certificate doesn't say "due to coffee" does not mean that coffee hasn't contributed to someones poor health. And just because a doctor may not admit a patient for "coffee-related-illness" does not mean that excess caffeine hasn't contributed to the patients health problems. I've never seen an admitting diagnosis of "stress due to a lousy boss" ... but can assure you that stress plays a BIG role in the development of many diseases. Have also never seen death due to "lack of orange consumption" ... but, death due to "scurvy" might be written (although this is rare, these days ... but, my point is the same).

And don't get me started on "peer reviewed" medical "science" ... there is so much MONEY in that industry and so many people with their hands in each others pockets that almost ANY research result can be purchased, for the right price. Even the New England Journal of Medicine has admitted numerous conflicts of interest.

I've worked in conventional medicine for over 20 years and it is, regrettably, a system I have little respect for (except emergency trauma medicine). That doesn't mean I don't respect several physicians ... most are honorable people who attempt to do the right thing ... BUT, the system of rewards for drug prescriptions and/ or surgery, is seriously flawed.


I wish you well, C.C.

Edited by calmcookie, 13 February 2006 - 09:17 AM.


#2 maineman

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 09:44 AM

Hello Dr. Maineman,

You wrote:

I've been practicing Internal Medicine since becoming Board Certified in 1986. In all that time I've never once signed a death certificate "Due to Coffee". In fact, I've never admitted a patient to the hospital with an admitting diagnosis of "Coffee-related-illness". But, as a scientist committed to the principles of the scientific method I will always keep an open mind when the statistically proven and peer-reviewed studies teach me otherwise. Until then, as always, I'll go with science over testimonials. My patient's lives are on the line...

My reply:

I respectfully say that your statements make no sense at all. I've seen thousands of medical diagnois over the years and several "cause of death" statements, and just because a death certificate doesn't say "due to coffee" does not mean that coffee hasn't contributed to someones poor health. And just because a doctor may not admit a patient for "coffee-related-illness" does not mean that excess caffeine hasn't contributed to the patients health problems. I've never seen an admitting diagnosis of "stress due to a lousy boss" ... but can assure you that stress plays a BIG role in the development of many diseases. Have also never seen death due to "lack of orange consumption" ... but, death due to "scurvy" might be written (although this is rare, these days ... but, my point is the same).

And don't get me started on "peer reviewed" medical "science" ... there is so much MONEY in that industry and so many people with their hands in each others pockets that almost ANY research result can be purchased, for the right price. Even the New England Journal of Medicine has admitted numerous conflicts of interest.

I've worked in conventional medicine for over 20 years and it is, regrettably, a system I have little respect for (except emergency trauma medicine). That doesn't mean I don't respect several physicians ... most are honorable people who attempt to do the right thing ... BUT, the system of rewards for drug prescriptions and/ or surgery, is seriously flawed.


I wish you well, C.C.



You've obviously had a bad experience along life's path and are extremely angy with what you percieve to be "medicine". I hope you get past that anger someday.

I am very proud of my profession. I am proud of the honesty and integrity that we strive for every day. I am proud that we can criticize each other's science and results and admit our mistakes. I am proud that we work together as a team to get at the truth and provide honest answers for real people on the planet. I can stand on the shoulders of those who've come before me and diagnose complex medical conditions as a result of high-integrity selfless dedication to perfection. When I diagnose a new case of rheumatoid arthritis in a patient, as I did last week, I am overcome. From the years of hard work by the diagnosticians I can make the diagnoses. From the years of hard work by the scientists who painstakingly analyze data I can understand the disease process. From the years of hard work and dedication of countless scientists (i.e. mothers, fathers, brothers, etc. who go to work everyday - not the slimy, money grubbing charlatans you percieve them to be) I can analyze my patient's blood chemistry and finally offer her appropriate, educated, scientifically-proven, peer analyzed, legitamate treatment. Her life will be good. She will remain active and happy and productive and will live a long, fruitful life due to medicine. I am proud to be a part of that.

If you want to ignore all of that and treat yourself based on whatever it is you feel to be so, then so be it. But please, do not get up on your high and mighty and assume that you are right and "MEDICINE" is wrong. That is small minded and smacks of racisim, fundamentalism and bigotry.

Maineman
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#3 calmcookie

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 10:10 AM

Dear MM, I am not at all angry ... quite the contrary ... absolutely love health prevention and health education. Your response, however, appears bitter and defensive. I sincerely hope you enjoy being a physician and I have absolutely no ill will toward you or any doctor. Most people do the best they're able to do, within their belief system. Doctors are no exception. Personally, I find it more rewarding to prevent arthritis (which is a preventable condition) than it is to diagnose it ... and then fill someone up with Prednisone or other steroids, which leads to even more serious problems. Prednisone is one of the most dangerous drugs I have seen, yet it is handed out like candy. I have no desire to attack you or any physician, but I will continue to share my views as honestly as I can. Again, I wish you well, C.C.

Edited by calmcookie, 13 February 2006 - 10:14 AM.


#4 maineman

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 10:27 AM

Dear MM,


"I sincerely hope you enjoy being a physician and I have absolutely no ill will toward you or any doctor. Most people do the best they're able to do, within their belief system."

Mine is not a "belief system". Based on science with rigorous scrutiny. You can offer no proof of any of your outlandish claims. If you could, we "doctors" would incorporate those treatments, diets, etc. into our toolbox as we have every other scientifically proven idea.

Personally, I find it more rewarding to prevent arthritis (which is a preventable condition) than it is to diagnose it ... and then fill someone up with Prednisone or other steroids, which leads to even more serious problems. Prednisone is one of the most dangerous drugs I have seen, yet it is handed out like candy.

I never mentioned prednisone. I am referring to RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS which is a complex, genetically mediated auto immune illness. God forbid you tell my patient she was responsible for that because of how she ate. Shame on you for that assumption.

If you can prevent OSTEOARTHRITIS (which I assume you are referrring to) would you please share that data?

C.C.


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#5 calmcookie

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 10:44 AM

There are certainly genetic factors that contribute to disease. The only thing we can do is attempt to optimize our genetic potential. I could say more, but your tone and attacks on me are not worth responding to. To imply that I am a racist and a bigot is complete nonsense. This is the end of my response to your posts. Good luck in your trading. I wish you a long and happy life, C.C.

#6 greenie

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 11:43 AM

Having worked in biological fields for several years now and after publishing many peer reviewed articles myself in so-called prestigious journals (Science, Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci. etc.), I have little faith in what goes around as "medical research". We have seen dramatic improvements in detections over last 50 years, and miniaturization is one of the main reasons. IMO, for the same reason, we have not seen much improvement in cure. Because miniaturized tools are available, researchers aim to find cure for the tiny part where they detect problem (plaque, lesion, tumor - the name varies with the disease). I am not aware of too many people, who look at the body as a complete machine and try to find cures accordingly. My collaborator, who is a brilliant scientist with several excellent peer-reviewed articles credited to his name, recently got converted into a believer of alternate medicine after a bout of auto-immune disease. So, I clearly see CC's point here.
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#7 maineman

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:03 PM

There are certainly genetic factors that contribute to disease. The only thing we can do is attempt to optimize our genetic potential. I could say more, but your tone and attacks on me are not worth responding to. To imply that I am a racist and a bigot is complete nonsense.


I did not call you a racist. You continuously lump "medicine" into one boat and make strong statements that doctors and the medical profession are in it for the money, whores to the drug companies, clueless about "real health", etc. Generalize statements do smack of racism or bigotry. I personally am offended. I am a smart, caring, hard working person and proud of what I do.

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#8 calmcookie

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:22 PM

Thank you Greenie. And MM : As William Shakespeare, a far wiser soul than I, wrote: "The lady doth protest too much, me thinks." ... so too, the occasional man. Health and best wishes to all, C.C.

#9 pistol_pete

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 03:34 PM


There are certainly genetic factors that contribute to disease. The only thing we can do is attempt to optimize our genetic potential. I could say more, but your tone and attacks on me are not worth responding to. To imply that I am a racist and a bigot is complete nonsense.


I did not call you a racist. You continuously lump "medicine" into one boat and make strong statements that doctors and the medical profession are in it for the money, whores to the drug companies, clueless about "real health", etc. Generalize statements do smack of racism or bigotry. I personally am offended. I am a smart, caring, hard working person and proud of what I do.

maineman


MM,

With all due respect, you need to step back and see who holds the purse strings in your profession. There is tons I can say but, you have to see the vested interests in chronic disease (emergency medicine aside).

I have treated and educated many of my patients with protocols that I believe will NEVER make it in the "scientific" journals for obvoious economic reasons.......my success rate towers over what conventional medicine can promise that is, mitigating the symptoms.

You might first start by re-examining what the true definition of health is.

All the best
PP

#10 calmcookie

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Posted 13 February 2006 - 07:46 PM

Mr. PP, Thank you for posting.

Edited by calmcookie, 13 February 2006 - 07:47 PM.