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What we can look forward to.... or not.


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#1 TTHQ Staff

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Posted 11 February 2009 - 12:55 PM

With socialized medicine.

Just an example of government health care:

LUCKNOW, India — At least 22 elderly people in northern India have lost vision in one or both of their eyes after undergoing free cataract surgery at a state-owned clinic, a government official said Wednesday.

Health Minister Anant Kumar Singh said initial reports suggested they may have gone blind from infections caused by contaminated eye drops used during surgery.

The case marks the second time in three months that mass blindness has been reported after free government surgeries in the impoverished state of Uttar Pradesh. Nine people went blind after treatment in December.

The latest affected group, most of them between 60 to 70 years old, complained of blurred vision, swelling and itching in their eyes within days of surgery, said I.S. Srivastava, a senior health official in Uttar Pradesh.

He said most also had difficulty seeing in their second eye and it was possible that "all of them have lost their eye sight permanently." All of the patients were sent to a government hospital in the northern city of Lucknow Tuesday night, he said.

Doctors at the state clinic have been ordered not to conduct any more surgeries until the inquiry is complete, Srivastava said.

The state's top elected official, Mayawati, who uses just one name, has suspended two doctors who carried out the surgeries.

Nine patients lost their eyesight in December after undergoing cataract surgery at a state-owned eye hospital in Uttar Pradesh's Sitapur district.

Health care in India is often dismal, with private facilities out of reach for most of the poor. Many are forced to go without health care or depend on public hospitals and clinics, which are frequently filthy, overcrowded, and lack full stocks of medicines.



#2 maineman

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 08:29 AM

With socialized medicine.

Just an example of government health care:

LUCKNOW, India — At least 22 elderly people in northern India have lost vision in one or both of their eyes after undergoing free cataract surgery at a state-owned clinic, a government official said Wednesday.

Health Minister Anant Kumar Singh said initial reports suggested they may have gone blind from infections caused by contaminated eye drops used during surgery.

The case marks the second time in three months that mass blindness has been reported after free government surgeries in the impoverished state of Uttar Pradesh. Nine people went blind after treatment in December.

The latest affected group, most of them between 60 to 70 years old, complained of blurred vision, swelling and itching in their eyes within days of surgery, said I.S. Srivastava, a senior health official in Uttar Pradesh.

He said most also had difficulty seeing in their second eye and it was possible that "all of them have lost their eye sight permanently." All of the patients were sent to a government hospital in the northern city of Lucknow Tuesday night, he said.

Doctors at the state clinic have been ordered not to conduct any more surgeries until the inquiry is complete, Srivastava said.

The state's top elected official, Mayawati, who uses just one name, has suspended two doctors who carried out the surgeries.

Nine patients lost their eyesight in December after undergoing cataract surgery at a state-owned eye hospital in Uttar Pradesh's Sitapur district.

Health care in India is often dismal, with private facilities out of reach for most of the poor. Many are forced to go without health care or depend on public hospitals and clinics, which are frequently filthy, overcrowded, and lack full stocks of medicines.


That's nothing compared to the mistakes made in American medicine. Where it is supposedly "free" and "independent". Good medicine, based on ethical practices, integrity and living by the code of Maimonedes and Hippocrates is independent of who is paying.
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#3 mss

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 07:36 AM

Good medicine, based on ethical practices, integrity and living by the code of Maimonedes and Hippocrates is independent of who is paying.

Sounds good in a class or text book, but is worthless in the real world.

YOU WILL NOT get the same attention for 15 min. of a Dr. time, when they were getting 75$-100$ and now only get 25$-50$. Unless you are really sick with something bad, you will only see a NP with a smile as she/he passes by anyway.

I suggest you go some where nobody knows you and seek some sort of medical help and see how it really is.

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WOMEN & CATS WILL DO AS THEY PLEASE, AND MEN & DOGS SHOULD GET USED TO THE IDEA.
A DOG ALWAYS OFFERS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. CATS HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT!!

#4 maineman

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:12 AM

All I hear here is bad-mouthing medicine. Crappy doctors, crappy healthcare delivery, dishonest, etc.etc. A whole lot of griping. I wonder why? Narrow-mindedness knows no bounds, eh? All Doctors suck. All Jews are money grubbers. All blacks have rhythm. The economy's fault is due to Wall Street. All democrats want to do is tax you to death. All white people do is drink gin and tonics and kill Indians. All Chinese do is wash laundry. No tickee no washee? And on and on.... Come on, eh? Medicine sucks? Ok. stay home and take zinc and echinaccea and 8 glasses of cool mountain water every day. And good luck. mm
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#5 mss

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 10:02 AM

Narrow-mindedness knows no bounds, eh?

mm


Try looking in the mirror.

mss

BTW: My father was a DR. and two of my best friends are DR.s right now.

Keep racial comments out of your posts.

Edited by mss, 26 February 2009 - 10:07 AM.

WOMEN & CATS WILL DO AS THEY PLEASE, AND MEN & DOGS SHOULD GET USED TO THE IDEA.
A DOG ALWAYS OFFERS UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. CATS HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT!!

#6 maineman

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 11:31 AM

Narrow-mindedness knows no bounds, eh?

mm


Try looking in the mirror.

mss

BTW: My father was a DR. and two of my best friends are DR.s right now.

Keep racial comments out of your posts.


The racial stuff is an analogy. You know i am not a racist. I used the analogy to demonstrate narrow-minded thinking. That should have been obvious. So, what exactly is your point? I look in the mirror and see a nice guy, works hard, spent 4 yrs in college, 4 yrs in Med school, 3 years in residency and the last 24 years studying medicine, getting continuing education, going to work, caring for people. And I hear from folks like you that medicine sucks? What is your point?
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#7 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 05:30 PM

I think the point is that Docs are like anyone else. When they're not being paid adequately, they'll leverage up with NP's or others in order to make adequate money. There's no such thing as a free lunch. Mark

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#8 stocks

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:07 PM

Does the Hippocratic Oath Make Doctors Our Slaves?


In the beginning, human rights were things we could enjoy by ourself on a desert island. Speech, assembly, the ability to make decisions for our own life, to keep the product of our own labors — these are all rights that don’t require other people to make them real. The only role for government is merely to keep other people from trampling on these rights by the use of force.

And then, in the 20th century, we invented new rights — the "right" to sustenance, to be clothed, to have shelter, to be educated, to have health care. These were not the passive rights like freedom of speech. For example, the right to shelter did not mean that we were free to go and build ourselves a shelter and have it protected from attack or burglary by others. No, it has come to mean that if we don’t have shelter, either through hardship or fecklessness, it should be provided for us.

I hope you can see the difference. These new rights require action by someone else. They require that someone, by force if necessary, be made to provide us these things, or at least be made to forfeit wealth which is used to purchase these things for us. These new rights are not only different from traditional rights like speech and property, but they are 180 degrees opposite. The old-style rights established that no other person has a call on our mind, our bodies, or our labor. The new-style rights establish the opposite, that we do have a call on someone else’s mind and labor. In fact, these news-tyle rights are not rights at all, but dressed up slavery. Because no matter how you try to pretty them up, the fact is that none of them have any meaning unless force can be used to make someone provide the object in question, whether it be health care or education or housing.

Now when we libertarians begin calling things like this slavery, the average American turns off.


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#9 stocks

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 11:13 AM

GENERAL AGREEMENT THAT MEDICAL LICENSING ENFORCES CARTEL BEHAVIORS


Economists see state licensing as a source of cartel power among
physician groups. Kessel (1958 and 1970) pointed out that licensing
requirements increase returns for existing practitioners at consumers’
expense.

The view that licensure facilitates cartel-like behavior has been
expressed over and over.
[organized medicine] has, for over 100 years, sought and
obtained special privileges from government. These special
privileges take the form of restrictions on free competition
in the marketplace. (Young 1987, 2)

In granting sole authority to the boards to issue licenses,
society has, in effect, given considerable power to
organized medicine to restrict the supply of physicians and
to influence the pattern of medical care for the benefit of
the profession. (Rayack 1982, 393)

The ability of the profession to influence medical school
admissions and licensure exams, as well as their resistance
to legal delegation of more routine tasks to other health
professionals, has certainly helped perpetuate their
economic advantage. (Burstein and Cromwell 1985, 77)
The establishment of limits on the use of physician
extenders is yet another method physicians employ to
protect their economic interests. (Santerre and Neun 2000,
423)

Economists have, for some time, suspected that occupational
licensure operates as a legally sanctioned cartelization
device, restricting entry . . . and restraining competition. . . .
Excessive limits . . . can result in monopoly rents for
members of the profession and higher prices and fewer
services for consumers. (Martin 1980, 143-144)
The AMA has not only controlled the supply of medical
school spaces in the United States . . . but also has worked
to assure that state licensing statutes require graduation
from AMA-accredited schools. Foreign entry has also been
curtailed by restrictive licensing laws as well as a strict
federal immigration policy. (Noether 1986, 233)
coupled with findings that consumers are rarely, if ever,
involved in the process, and that the resulting regulations
do in fact raise prices and decrease the availability of
services, the evidence supporting the self-interest model of
regulation is substantial. (Begun, Crowe, and Feldman
1981, 250)

The emphasis in terms of quality is always on the training
of entering physicians and not on those currently practicing
in the profession. It is in the economic interests of current
practitioners . . . they will receive higher prices and higher
incomes. . . . If the medical profession was concerned
primarily with quality rather than with monopoly power,
there would be at least some emphasis by the profession
on the quality of care provided by practicing physicians.
(Feldstein 1999, 383, 386)

By the 1950’s, organized medicine had achieved virtually
all of its political goals . . . [one of which was] to control
entry into the medical profession and to suppress
competition for physicians’ services. . . . The most important
consequence of the control of medical education by
organized medicine . . . was that physicians acquired the
power to reduce the supply of medical services and
increase their incomes. (Goodman and Musgrave 1992,
137, 147).

As time passed, restrictions were expanded to
cover . . . advertising, price cutting, and other conduct
considered to be “unprofessional.” Clearly licensing laws
serve not only to protect patients but also to limit the
number of practitioners, thus protecting physicians from
would-be competitors. (Henderson 2002, 107


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Defenders of the status quo are always stronger than reformers seeking change, 
UNTIL the status quo self-destructs from its own corruption, and the reformers are free to build on its ashes.