22 replies to this topic

[nimblebear]

Anyone who can't figure that global warming is not a human created condition, I give you an analogy. If ant is on an elephant and he farts do you think the elephant's body temperature is going to go up ? If the answer is no, then you have your answer on whether humans are influencing the temperature of the earth through man made created CO2 (fossil fuels coal, cars, whatever you can think of). Take all humans, take all the energy they have ever manifested into different forms and put all those sources together in one spot on the earth take a photgraph from outerspace, and then you will have the equivalent of the impact humans can and are having on this planet, and the equivalent picture of an ant on an elephant. First you would not be able to see the ant, nor from outerspace you could see all the humans grouped into one spot on earth. More CO2 is emanated from the ocean in a day, than is emanated from 6 billion humans in 1 year. The so called science is a farce, its all warped facts and mostly resulting from group think fiction. Please, Go worry about something else, But i assure you over einstein's dead body that were he alive, he would prove to everyone that this whole global warming thing has nothing to do with the activities of humans. And more to do with the nature of our planet, its evolution, and its ever changing climate. If the globe is indeed "warming" it has done both warming and cooling over many millions of years.

Edited by nimblebear, 29 April 2009 - 10:46 PM.

[diogenes227]

Anyone who can't figure that global warming is not a human created condition, I give you an analogy.

If ant is on an elephant and he farts do you think the elephant's body temperature is going to go up ?

If the answer is no, then you have your answer on whether humans are influencing the temperature of the earth through man made created CO2 (fossil fuels coal, cars, whatever you can think of). Take all humans, take all the energy they have ever manifested into different forms and put all those sources together in one spot on the earth take a photgraph from outerspace, and then you will have the equivalent of the impact humans can and are having on this planet, and the equivalent picture of an ant on an elephant. First you would not be able to see the ant, nor from outerspace you could see all the humans grouped into one spot on earth.

More CO2 is emanated from the ocean in a day, than is emanated from 6 billion humans in 1 year. The so called science is a farce, its all warped facts and mostly resulting from group think fiction.

Please, Go worry about something else, But i assure you over einstein's dead body that were he alive, he would prove to everyone that this whole global warming thing has nothing to do with the activities of humans. And more to do with the nature of our planet, its evolution, and its ever changing climate. If the globe is indeed "warming" it has done both warming and cooling over many millions of years.

Or as Dennis Miller used to always say at the end of his latest rant: "That's just my opinion. I could be wrong."

[Russ]

Latest reports from Antarctica done by Australian scientists, show that most of it has increasing ice mass.

[arbman]

I am only going to show observations, charts and measured results...

Regardless of whether we are contributing to the earth's climate change, we are definitely polluting the planet at an irreversible rate, many species and fish stocks are declining at the alarming rates due to their ever shrinking and polluted environments. The eco-unfriendly production techniques are not only a concern about the CO2 emissions. However, the evidence show that much larger cycles will play much more important role about the climate changes...

* How about other planetary cycles etc? Notice that the newest readings are at the left side of the charts, NOT right.

Could it be a minor jump in the data? Well we have the entire history of the planet (well almost);

Yes, it is possible that this spike will quickly retreat too, but it is clear that we are at the highest end of the free carbon presence in the atmosphere through hundreds of thousands of years of data, simply amazing!

8 Degree Celsius change over tens of thousands of years due to the "dust", this is huge we will eventually all get wiped out again, but for now it appears that we are at the warmest or peak in the temperatures due to the cyclical changes;

* The ice age is due to the planetary alignment;

Again the carbon presence is also at the highest historically and it is probably contributing to our measurements;

* Milankovitch figured out the planetary effects;

This model also predicts cooler future due to the earths movements;

* Roughly half degree change over only 100 years due to the carbon emissions, solar activity and ozone layer in the "short term" models according to the following chart --completely ignores the planetary changes though;

So, all these are saying that the earth temperature is at the warmest side of the very very very very long term cycles, but also the naturally occurring CO2 emissions as a result of it, this is probably contributing to the carbon emissions all by itself. As the temperatures rise, the naturally occurring CO2 emissions will compound the increase even if humans cut their emissions.

[Guru Dudette]

What are your sources for the charts? I can make a chart too, and I don't even have to use facts to do it, if you get my point.

[arbman]

What are your sources for the charts?

I can make a chart too, and I don't even have to use facts to do it, if you get my point.

All of the sources are as scientific as they can get, slide lower to here and follow the links. Follow the link for Milankovitch cycles, there are enough references there. I followed some of the links and they looked like valid research to me.

The point is the human activity probably elevated the carbon emissions, some of the sudden increase is very obvious. But the earth is also at one of its warmest periods and the carbon generation is also at the highest. We did not do that for the last 10k years, this happened because of the warmer weather.

Perhaps even more important is that we are consuming the earth's resources and polluting it at an irrecoverable rate that you don't need a chart for, if you get my point.

[nimblebear]

we are gonna die anyway. it just a matter of timing. so why worry about it ?

[arbman]

we are gonna die anyway. it just a matter of timing. so why worry about it ?

I have kids, it is not all about me...

[OEXCHAOS]

What are your sources for the charts?

I can make a chart too, and I don't even have to use facts to do it, if you get my point.

All of the sources are as scientific as they can get, slide lower to here and follow the links. Follow the link for Milankovitch cycles, there are enough references there. I followed some of the links and they looked like valid research to me.

The point is the human activity probably elevated the carbon emissions, some of the sudden increase is very obvious. But the earth is also at one of its warmest periods and the carbon generation is also at the highest. We did not do that for the last 10k years, this happened because of the warmer weather.

Perhaps even more important is that we are consuming the earth's resources and polluting it at an irrecoverable rate that you don't need a chart for, if you get my point.

Arbman, the wiki on climate change is being manipulated by a number of AGW fanatics. Frankly, what I've read, if true, is reprehensible.

Here's one article on the subject.

http://heliogenic.bl...-wikipedia.html

You'll get no argument from me on our need to pollute yes, and to preserve habitat. There's simply no good arguments against such.

On the warming thing, however, I posit that the raw data on long-term climate are NOT nearly so reliable as Connolley et al. would pretend. In fact, I've read credible studies that suggest that we're only modestly above long term mean temperatures, and that conceivably measurment errors may be mistating even that.

One of my favorite discussion sites on this stuff is www.WattsUpWithThat.com

I also check out ClimateAudit.org. There's a lot of politics in this stuff, so one has to use a filter and also suspend one's own biases in order to not jump to conclusions either way. Still, I highly recommend both sites.

My opinion, reasoned and researched, is that there are powerful forces engaged in borderline scientific fraud on behalf of those who benefit from a belief in AGW and a propaganda campaign of historic proportions. NOTHING can be taken at face value in this.

Mark

[OEXCHAOS]

we are gonna die anyway. it just a matter of timing. so why worry about it ?

I have kids, it is not all about me...

Should we guarantee them a lower standard of living by doing something stupid now, or should we grow as fast as we reasonably can, so that they can better afford to do something later, provided we actually need to do anything (besides clean up our acts)?

Remember, action has long-term consequences too.

The one thing that we know is that wealthier people do better in any climate change scenario (warm or cold).