7 replies to this topic

[nimblebear]

The whole idea of universal healthcare has taken on a new meaning. Employers want to get out from under this "burden" of rising healthcare costs and simply let employees fend for themselves.

So when people pitch this idea, keep this in mind from the dealings by GM :

"For GM, the transfer of about $50 billion of long-term health costs to a trust managed by the union is critical to a positive outcome.

GM, fighting to defend market share that's under siege from foreign automakers, insists it needs to get out from under crushing pension and health-care costs. For key competitors such as Toyota Motor Corp. those costs are often borne by national welfare programs in their home countries.

Such a move, if agreed, would save GM about $3 billion a year. It was not clear how much money GM would contribute to the trust, which in turn hinges on other aspects of the overall labor contract. "

[pdx5]

I have to believe Hillarycare will be here very soon. Healthcare costs as high as they are, rationing of healthcare is the only way out, which is basically what Hillarycare will be.

[OEXCHAOS]

Consumer Price Discipline. Where you don't have it, you have inflation. Where you do, not so much. My mother actually has saved her insurance company thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) in over-billing. I think she takes great pride in it. Alas, she is alone in the wilderness. For most people, insurance is just supposed to take care of it and health care is supposed to be just a benevolent thing that is provided for them...it's infantile, really. I mean that literally. And the system feeds and exploits that with governmental support. Mark

[maineman]

Health Care is a great thing. You'all know my views. But the modern American Healthcare "consumer" has become a spoiled little brat. Patients assume that every aspect of thier "health" MUST be paid for by someone or something somewhere. This assumption leads to pressure on the insurers and then the employers and everyone down the line. This has led to the idea that healthcare is a "right" So the patient (i mean "counsumer") demands free visits, free medicine, free x-rays, free second opinions, free surgery, etc. A 5000 dollar varicose vein cosmetic procedure is paid for by Blue Cross 100% - for example. SOmeone tell me how you are going "fix" this system.... For someone self employed, the current rates are around 10,000 dollars per year, and this includes large up front deductibles. What small business can afford that? And because insurance has been backed into a corner and is expected to pay for everything, the drug companies keep raising the price, hospitals keep rasing the price, surgeons keep raising the prices, etc. etc. If you hear of a candidate saying they are going to "fix" this, I can tell you they are lying. As long as we have a system in place that rewards smokers by paying for all their oxygen and CAT scans, a system that rewards overeaters who never exercised with free open heart surgery and stents, that allows neurotic people with a headache to go from doctor to doctor unchecked getting just "one more" MRI of the head "to be sure", for free (i.e. paid by the insurance company), that allows everyone with a sniffle to demand and recieve 75 dollar anitbioitics from a Nurse Practitioner and a medical "clinic"... well, the system aint gonna change any time soon.. mm

[OEXCHAOS]

Granted, we're "younger" (shut up! ) and non-smokers, but we self insure for the first couple grand. Our rates aren't too bad. In fact, quite affordable. That tells me that over-consumption by lazy consumers is the problem. We probably ought to eliminate deductibility of health insurance, and mandate MSA's that ARE deductible AND allow tax free distribution of 50% any left over MSA cash at the end of the year. I see a TON of overconsumption of health care. It's encouraged by insurance and Medicare and by Docs (sorry MM!). It's a "rational" response. It's also the "tragedy of the commons" writ all over again. Mark

[maineman]

THere are an awful lot of irresponsible docs out there. Who can blame them when Medicare, Blue Cross, etc. will just pay them anything all of the time? I don't condone it, but I get it.... The undiscussed issue is that when it comes to health care we act just like the old socialist countries where it was expected that the central goverment would pay for everything. In NO other aspect of our democratic, capitalistic society to do we believe or act this way. Can you picture going to the supermarket with a load of food at the check out and saying, "Bill my insurer?" Laughable... but this is what has become of so-called "health care"... "What do you mean you won't get an MRI of my head? Insurance will pay for it, doc. What's it to you?" mm

[OEXCHAOS]

Yup, tragedy of the commons. Individuals foisting the lions share of the expense upon their fellow citizen who then feels like a sucker unless HE does the same thing. What's funny is that my doc barters with me for small stuff... just like they did in the old days before everyone got employer provided health insurance (thank you Govt. wage caps) and Medicare. I'm going to move this topic to H&S board in a bit, in case anyone wonders what happened. Mark

[stocks]

Paying for Health Care -- and Education?


FOR A CENTURY we have lived with the idea that things like education and health care were too important—and too complicated and expensive—for ordinary people to do on their own.

That’s why we have the government spending about 0.85 trillion dollars a year on health care and 0.75 trillion dollars a year on education. You could look it up.

Here’s a fearless prediction. We are going to have to give up the whole idea of government-run education and health care and go back to paying for it ourselves.

Because the only thing that a government can do—or should do—is run a war. Oh, and catch criminals.

Here’s libertarian John Stossel talking about Whole Foods and how they switched from a low-deductible health plan to a high-deductible health plan for their employees. They put the difference, about $1,500 a year, into Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) for their employees. HSAs are tax-sheltered accounts like IRAs. Writes Stossel:

CEO John Mackey told me that when he went to the new system, "Our costs went way down."

Most important, since employees control the money, their behavior changed. Whole Foods workers started asking "how much things cost," Mackey said.

Yes, but when people have to think about how much it costs before they go to the doctor won’t they skimp on health care?

Harvard Business School professor Regina Herzlinger says studies show that "people who have these high-deductible health-insurance policies take a lot better care of themselves. They have more yearly physicals. Because they’re saying, ’If I keep myself healthy, in the long run, I’m going to be spending less money.’"

Republican politicians dare not tell us this, and Democratic politicians will fight it to the last taxpayer, but you are going to be paying for your own health care in the future.

And my guess is that we’ll be paying for education as well.

And that’s a good thing. Because the most soul-destroying thing in America today is the K-16 compulsory bums-on-seats government education system. If we had to pay for education, we’d be out of there in a flash.

Why spend money on stuff you don’t need and don’t like?

http://www.roadtothe..._education.html