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#1 SilentOne

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:57 PM

I was going to post some cycle charts, but they are rendered useless at the moment when I see the likes of what is posted below. Good luck gold bulls. And let's forgo the usual skepticism regarding this particular sentiment indicator. It is what it is. You do what you will with it.

cheers,

john

http://www.marketwat...l...&dist=msr_1

MARK HULBERT

False rally?

Commentary: Contrarians concerned about amount of gold bullishness
By Mark Hulbert, MarketWatch

Last update: 11:00 p.m. EST Dec. 8, 2008Comments: 126ANNANDALE, Va. (MarketWatch) --

Two weeks ago, when I last focused on the prevailing gold market sentiment, I reported an uncomfortably high level of bullishness among the editors of gold timing newsletters.

As a result, I wrote that contrarians considered it "unlikely" that the rally in gold that was then two weeks old "will meet any better fate than other rallies of recent months."

Gold bullion fell by some $70 per ounce, hitting a low last Friday of just above $750 per ounce, before jumping $17 on Monday.
Unfortunately for those who are bullish on gold, the sentiment picture is today less favorable than two weeks ago.

Consider where the Hulbert Gold Newsletter Sentiment Index (HGNSI) stands. The HGNSI reflects the average recommended gold market exposure among a subset of short-term gold timing newsletters tracked by the Hulbert Financial Digest. As of Monday night, the HGNSI stood at 37.9%.

To put that reading in context, consider that two weeks ago, when bullion was some $50 per ounce higher, the HGNSI stood at 30.7%. So, in the wake of a net drop in bullion's price of around $50, the average recommended gold exposure level has jumped by more than seven percentage points.

That's unusual, and significant. The typical pattern is for sentiment levels to rise and fall in step with gold itself. When it does not live up to that pattern, it suggests that investors are adhering to their positions with an abnormal amount of stubbornness. In such cases, contrarians believe it to be a warning sign that the position being stubbornly held is likely to be proved wrong.

So, as I did two weeks ago, I conclude from a contrarian analysis of gold sentiment, that any rally that begins from current levels is unlikely to meet any better fate than other recent rallies.

When my previous columns reached a more or less similar conclusion, many reacted with incredulity: How can one not be bullish right now, given the inflationary consequences of the federal government's bailout of the financial system -- and apparently, as of this writing, the automobile industry too?

But the issue at hand is not whether those federal bailouts will be inflationary. They undeniably will be. Instead, the issue is whether that inflationary potential has already been discounted into gold's price. If so, then gold's price in theory should go continue to go up only if and when there is any surprise revealing that potential to be even greater than previously thought.

That's a far different question, of course.
Another theme that emerged from the comments to my previous gold columns is that the gold-market sentiment doesn't cause the market to go up or down. Instead, the argument goes, the trend of gold's price is being determined by hugely more powerful global forces.
Indeed.

But contrarians typically don't argue that sentiment determines the longer-term trend. Instead, sentiment measures help you to determine whether the current price is above or below that trend -- regardless of its direction. And, at least according to my contrarian analysis of gold market sentiment, gold right now is above that longer-term trend.
In the end, of course, the proof of the pudding is in the eating: And my econometric tests show that the gold market performs better when the HGNSI is lower than when it is higher.

But, because sentiment is at best a short-term market timing tool, the conclusion I am reaching here is consistent with the longer-term trend being up. But, if the conclusion of my analysis is correct, the gold market will have to wait a while for that longer-term trend to catch up with where gold is now trading.

Mark Hulbert is the founder of Hulbert Financial Digest in Annandale, Va. He has been tracking the advice of more than 160 financial newsletters since 1980.

Edited by SilentOne, 10 December 2008 - 12:04 AM.

"By the Law of Periodical Repetition, everything which has happened once must happen again and again and again-and not capriciously, but at regular periods, and each thing in its own period, not another's, and each obeying its own law ..." - Mark Twain

#2 Kimston

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 12:45 AM

Hi John, Hate to pile on but I've got a confluence of time squares that line up today/tomorrow for what I suspect is a tradable top in the miners. We'll see. I'm itching to buy, but am being very patient waiting for the long-term cycle lows to settle in on gold. Kimston

#3 tradesurfer

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:05 AM

well they say a bull market needs to climb a wall of fear... looks like hulbert is giving us that wall. Gold will be at 875 by the end of this week and in the 900's by the end of December. those waiting for low 700's or 600 in gold will end up capitulating and jumping in long when gold breaks 1000 in January.

#4 johngeorge

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 09:25 AM

I look to 785 on GLD for resistance and the February futures already blew through that this am. :huh:

Good trading to all. :)


http://stockcharts.c...9362&r=6379.png
Peace
johngeorge

#5 SilentOne

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:01 AM

hi Kimston,

Hi John,
Hate to pile on but I've got a confluence of time squares that line up today/tomorrow for what I suspect is a tradable top in the miners. We'll see. I'm itching to buy, but am being very patient waiting for the long-term cycle lows to settle in on gold.


I've picked off some good long trades from the Oct. lows, but I am disappointed. I expected this timeframe to be a low and now it is looking very much like a high. I have to wait for buying a larger swing and I am unsure of that entry point. I'm not really interested in shorting it here. If I do, it will be tomorrow or Friday. What a market.

cheers,

john
"By the Law of Periodical Repetition, everything which has happened once must happen again and again and again-and not capriciously, but at regular periods, and each thing in its own period, not another's, and each obeying its own law ..." - Mark Twain

#6 senorBS

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 12:06 PM

hi Kimston,

Hi John,
Hate to pile on but I've got a confluence of time squares that line up today/tomorrow for what I suspect is a tradable top in the miners. We'll see. I'm itching to buy, but am being very patient waiting for the long-term cycle lows to settle in on gold.


I've picked off some good long trades from the Oct. lows, but I am disappointed. I expected this timeframe to be a low and now it is looking very much like a high. I have to wait for buying a larger swing and I am unsure of that entry point. I'm not really interested in shorting it here. If I do, it will be tomorrow or Friday. What a market.

cheers,

john


Closing norte of HUI 250 is a muy clear importante breakout and muy bullish, indicating a Tres wave norte is underway. Senor does not give a flying [redaction] what the HGNSI says, my charts are bullish IF we close above HUI 250.

NO BS

Senor

#7 SilentOne

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 03:24 PM

senor,

Senor does not give a flying [redaction] what the HGNSI says, my charts are bullish IF we close above HUI 250.


No disrespect, but the HGNSI has been a good barometer of the quality of a PM rally. Note the mid-July bullish HGNSI (~65%) and I commented on that and thought it was a problem for bulls. Then on the way down, we never saw the washout I was hoping for in the HGNSI. Oh we are getting the bear rallies and they are nice. But I am not an investor, trading only. I think it will be like that for the next year.

Good luck with your trades.

cheers,

john
"By the Law of Periodical Repetition, everything which has happened once must happen again and again and again-and not capriciously, but at regular periods, and each thing in its own period, not another's, and each obeying its own law ..." - Mark Twain

#8 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 06:47 PM

I'm pretty sure that the guys are all looking at the pattern on the Buck and saying, "That looks toppy, how do I hedge that?" The news doesn't make the Buck look like a very good bet, either. In point of fact, if rates keep falling, or at least hold south of 5% it will be. Mark

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#9 dharma

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 01:04 PM

i just wonder if during different phases of the markets, the parameters change. in the recognition phase for example, it makes sense that more folks would recognize the market is going higher. and thus bullishness would persist. dharma

#10 SilentOne

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 02:45 PM

hi dharma, This has been a good rally for anyone trading long. But the real bull moves are marked by persistent bearishness at the start. This was the way it worked in the 2005 bottom. It took months to set up that rally into May 2006. And also note that we did not see extreme bearishness at the lows. That would have been best. If the HGNSI was actually really negative in Nov. I would have bought like crazy. Otherwise I have lost the appetite for risk. Wonder why? :huh: The bottom is in for the PMs for now. But it will be volatile and it is best to cull longs at times like now and rebuy weakness. There is a currency turn date this weekend, so another reason to be cautious from my viewpoint. Always remember that this is a bear market right now and you need to treat it as such. If gold manages to break for $1000 and to new highs, then there is wind in the sails. Otherwise, it is a range bound trade it situation. cheers, john
"By the Law of Periodical Repetition, everything which has happened once must happen again and again and again-and not capriciously, but at regular periods, and each thing in its own period, not another's, and each obeying its own law ..." - Mark Twain