61 replies to this topic

[OEXCHAOS]

You guys are kidding yourselves. You will be paying whatever tax they bring. Heck, commisions use to be around $100 a trade or more. Today it is incredibly cheap to trade. Trade offshore? Yeah right. Good luck. All this scalping and such adds nothing. How much scalping and daytrading you think occurs with Warren Buffetts stock? It is useless trading except for the leeches that do it. It sure is nice to have cheap trading costs, we have been blessed. So you think your in and out daytrades contribute to society? Your fooling yourself. Society would get along just fine without you and all the rest of you.

You sir, are ignorant of economic reality.

Liquidity is everything. You'd think you'd have learned that when it went away for CDO's.

You don't buy a stock if you don't think you can quickly and easily sell it.

So, when the market is free falling again, who is going to buy? Nobody, that's who, because nobody is short and nobody is speculating on longs either.

There goes the pension. Panic sets in. Nobody wants to invest because they know they can't get out of there's a problem.

This is admittedly the worst case scenario, but it is, sooner or later, inevitable, as we've seen.

We are heroes. We are the buyers of last resort. We help make sure that the idiots who buy the top don't get hurt even more. We are the MACHINERY of capitalism. We decrease the transaction and slippage costs for everyone else and we provide market support when it's most needed.

If they want tall us "unproductive", I say, good bye. I'll give them nothing further.

See how they like it.

Money yearns to be free and if the US wants to penalize the back bone of the market, the innovators and heroes of the market place can go to greener pastures. I've always liked lamb and good Shiraz...and trout...

[pwildbil]

This thread is too funny!! People must think traders are overpaid !! So they gonna make you work harder for less money......sounds very familiar!! hmmmmm...........Its been happening all over the country for years!! LOL

[EntropyModel]

Agree with Mark(OEX) comments entirely. This 'trading is evil' ideology is communist thinking in USA not free market thinking which developed USA's wealth. You can sense it under the surface, those for the tax basically despise anyone trying to make money in what THEY decide is an UNPRODUCTIVE manner - whilst being ignorant of course of what productive/unproductive means. What is the metric for productive? do you thinking most work is productive? biggest job growth in USA from 2002-2006 was real estate licences and mortgage brokers - think that's productive? after that its govt workers and state workers - productive? NONE of that contributes to the productive capacity of USA inc - some of us pointed that out. Ironically, about the thing USA inc is earning money at is BEING THE FREE MARKET CAPITAL of the world, we earn most of our economic value from having the worlds speculative money here - its keeps interest rates low, allows are credit markets to function - hello? have you been watching the last few years and what's happened? I spelt all this out BEFORE the collapse so maybe I know a little, the USA only really has financial speculation as its 'business model' - take that away and we'll all be moving abroad because the economy will implode. I mean, you've just seen what happens when the housing speculation collapsed. SO we are not India, or any other country. If you want an example of what a free market speculative capital before USA it was Asia in 1997 when speculation money fled, and destroyed their economy almost overnight. Its the law of unintended consequences - for example, they tried to scare joe public into a bailout and caused a market crash, they tried to ban shorting in financials which only accelerated their decline. The last thing this economy needs is more unknowns/messing around, the system is on a precipice of a total breakdown and you want to introduce another huge unknown. You want more taxes to reduce non-productivity - tax television watching - total unproductive, breeds costly anti-societal behavour, reduces time for productive work/learning tax overweight/unhealthy people - lack of personal responsiblity leading to excess health costs. - wait, better yet, tax people who are ignorant, that's very unproductive and that would make the most. best, Mark.

[OEXCHAOS]

You want more taxes to reduce non-productivity -
tax television watching - total unproductive, breeds costly anti-societal behavour, reduces time for productive work/learning
tax overweight/unhealthy people - lack of personal responsiblity leading to excess health costs.
- wait, better yet, tax people who are ignorant, that's very unproductive and that would make the most.

I almost said this word for word.

I look at what passes for entertainment for most folks and I shake my head. I look at what passes for entertainment during the day and I'm agog. I look at what passes for news and I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

In case anyone questions the "productivity" of trading.

Is there an opportunity there? If so, then it's a needed behavior and is compensated (rather efficiently, actually). If we make money at it freely, it's productive.

Compare that with civil servants. They have to put a gun to our head in order get us to pay for many of them. That's how we know that they AREN'T productive.

Whenever a pointy headed "intellectual" tells you what's productive and what isn't, just take a look at who's paying for the labor and whether it's voluntary.

M

[NAV]

There are many emerging markets like India and others who have this stupid nonsense called transaction tax. There are so many friggin taxes in India, it's extremely hard to daytrade actively. The Nifty futures in India jumps around like a mad bull on the 1-min charts, sudden up and down spurts owing to lack of intraday liquidity. Again, like IT said, there's no point comparing Indian market with the U.S. The Indian market is still very immature. Transaction tax in U.S is a stupid stupid idea ! Gosh, someone as stupid as Greenie(TT guy) must have come up with this proposal.

[cgnx]

This is a bad idea for those who trade. Problem is there are more folks who don't trade stocks alot. We are outnumbered. The rants above had very little substancial reasoning or facts to support your flimsy argument. Taxes are on almost everything you buy. Tolls on roads. Visa and Amex take a charge out of every credit card transaction. I would love to get a piece out of every trade. If that was my business. I guess you all would have to become better traders.

[EntropyModel]

The rants above had very little substancial reasoning or facts to support your flimsy argument.

You don't present any reasoning at all yourself, but see fit to insultingly dismiss people who've demonstrated alot of intelligence on this board over years - IndexTrader, Mark(OEX), NAV and myself for example, how ironic.

Taxes are on almost everything you buy. Tolls on roads. Visa and Amex take a charge out of every credit card transaction. I would love to get a piece out of every trade. If that was my business.

Since you've proclaimed yourself much smarter than us 'ranting, flimsy reasoners', do please explain how road tolls relate
to the functioning of credit markets & keeping foreign capital in USA to maintain low cost of capital ?

I guess you all would have to become better traders.

It was carefully explained to you why most traders will have to give up trading.
These are hard working ordinary people trying to make a living, who have nothing to do
with the current crises, and no reason to be singled out to pay for the mess, as was
explained to you in great detail.

Is it that you didn't read the maths given in the thread, or that you don't understand it?

Mark.

[cgnx]

I understand your getting all in a tizzy about something you have very little control over. And that most likely will never happen. I'm not sure at what cost I would quit trading at, but I do know it would have to be pretty high.

[OEXCHAOS]

This is a bad idea for those who trade. Problem is there are more folks who don't trade stocks alot. We are outnumbered. The rants above had very little substancial reasoning or facts to support your flimsy argument. Taxes are on almost everything you buy. Tolls on roads. Visa and Amex take a charge out of every credit card transaction. I would love to get a piece out of every trade. If that was my business.

I guess you all would have to become better traders.

You're kidding, right?

Cripes there are reams of studies done by the UofC showing the benefits of reduced transaction expense and the utility of speculation. Cripes, I probably have some of them somewhere. Dry stuff, but unequivocable.

But, no, I don't need to become a better trader, I need to encourage a large number of my friends and colleagues to leave and drive what's left of the NY, Chicago, and SF markets into the ground from NZ.

But, that's not necessary. They'll kill this crap. It's economically bad, and there are vested interests who will kill it. I'm only ranting about the improbable. But I'm prepared. In fact, I'll be doing some more research and feeling out some opportunities. This could be big for those who are prepared.

M

[pwildbil]

The real truth is that the stock market will still be there even IT, Mark, and the rest stop trading!! Maybe with a little less liquidity but If the price is right someone will buy it!! Maybe this is their plan to ship (hard working) day traders jobs overseas!! LOL