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Great Day for USA

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#41 salsabob



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Posted 28 June 2012 - 09:06 PM

And France is lining itself up for bailouts because it can't support it's system. I've been focused mainly on the UK health care system and it's terrible. The horror stories are endless. Friends in the UK have also concurred.

Greece was broke before it joined the UK, 40%+ on the government payrolls. Yes, socialism did break Greece but it took decades to run out of other people's money and admit it has to be redone. And so on and so forth.

No we do not have a free enterprise system we have Medicare and that's a huge portion of our health care system taken over by the government and so badly set up it's set to become the entire US budget in the future and is on it's way to bankruptcy....or so said President Obama when he once indicated he was interested in helping it. But lately he's used it as a piggy bank and hastened it's collapse.

Some of us ARE paying attention to the details.

Uh, last I checked it still was. Until this law. There is no law that requires employers to provide health care. There is a ton of regulation, but it's an insurance industry, what would you expect? And the regulation fails because - wait for it - the FREE MARKET doesn't work for health care. If your insurance company tries to bilk you on their policy for your home that was burnt down, it's pretty cut and dry, and still fairly cut & dry for more complex insurance issues - because the outcomes and risks are, to a large extent, predictable. We know how many hurricanes we'll get on average, how many houses will burn down a year. But medical conditions and treatment are a lot, lot less cut & dry, particularly because we tend to ascribe a different set of values to human life than we do to property.

As for how Europe's doing - it sucks. But the cause wasn't socialism. The cause was the real estate bubble in Spain, and the idiotic policy to create a common currency without a common fiscal policy. As far as I know, their health care systems are all doing just fine and well-funded. The Europeans, about 50 years ago, decided to trade growth for social stability and higher quality of life for the middle and lower classes. Growth gets killed by taxes and business regulations, but the vast majority of people are quite content because they have a higher standard of living than they did before, and arguably higher than most Americans. But don't even get me started on how hard it is to be an entrepreneur in France - I used to argue with my French friends about it all the time. Arguably, any person in the U.S. earning less than $75,000 a year would be better off living in Europe. They would get free health care, free education, and better unemployment benefits. Americans like you have a different value system that's all. Thus far, our political history shows that we prefer the "chance" of riches and severe boom/bust cycles rather than a moderately good lifestyle with systemic unemployment problems and slow growth.

Here's an article on much hated France's health care system.

And you can look up any statistics you like...life expectancy, access to health care, education (though how you define quality is tricky), purchasing power...Where they totally lose is in your chance of being a billionaire. Not bloody likely. But it never really was, was it?

Please explain that to me. How does an entity go bankrupt when it issues the currency in which if owes its debt?

Here's an interesting endeavor. You know those SS and Medicare trust funds that are going to run out of cash? Can you tell me where all that cash is being held? If you can't find it, don't you think it a little strange to talk about running out of something that doesn't actually exist? Sort of like believing the federal govt can go bankrupt or in magic ponies that poop gold nuggets, no? ;)

Edited by salsabob, 28 June 2012 - 09:10 PM.

John Galt shrugged, outsourced to Red China and opened a hedge fund for unregulated securitized credit derivatives.

If the world didn't suck, wouldn't we all just fly off?

#42 Sentient Being

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 09:25 PM

UK....When women are having babies in hallways and elevators because the government can't staff the birthing rooms and patients are waiting on park benches and in restaurants because hospitals in an effort to meet some unfunded government service mandate wont let them into the waiting room, Yeah I'd say they have big issues. Not to mention the UK has let go of hundreds of thousands (490,000) of government workers they can no longer afford to pay and they acknowledge there are no jobs for them in their former capitalist system which they admit they must now attempt to revive because what they were doing with socialism wasn't working.

Typical big government socialized health care, runs out of money and the service dries up. Yes the system is lousy but we all share lousy socialized health care and that's fair???

There will always be the true believers who will tell you that a broken system is wonderful and that socialism will save the planet.

Where is socialised medicine and nanny state systems working? In states that practice fiscal responsibility. Which are few and far between in Europe.

The lack of growth is the big problem...I think they can keep some of their welfare states, but they need to do simple things in France like keep the retirement age at 65, which will be fought hand & fist, but the French aren't stupid, I think, and will eventually face reality...You're conflating issues, but the one thing the Euro crisis is doing is forcing them to start to look more closely at their deficits.

As for dissatisfaction with the NHS in Britain, which is arguably worse than France or Sweden's, this article begs to differ:


Edited by Sentient Being, 28 June 2012 - 09:35 PM.

In the end we retain from our studies only that which we practically apply.

~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe ~

#43 spielchekr



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Posted 29 June 2012 - 05:58 AM

This has nothing to do with anyone paying an insurance company for insurance.

You can't be serious! Failure to commit the commerce is Supreme Court's justification for this legislation, and it enables government to avoid calling it a new tax. And I have no problem being called an idealist when it comes to the U.S. Constitution.

But the markets love it. Next, Expect a tax for not maintaining a rainy-day minimum savings account in a bank.

Edited by spielchekr, 29 June 2012 - 06:02 AM.

#44 CHAx



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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:12 AM

the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Central planning of resources will work this time, right?