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Thoughts on Desktop

Im going to build it

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#1 opinionated

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 08:47 PM

This is way off topic,

 

Or maybe not...  Back in the day I use to build my own computers.  But way back then things were nothing like they are now.  I will not use this for regular desktop but for trading only. Would like to have a conversation with someone who knows there crap.

 

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

 

I want it screaming fast,  3 monitors, 1tb hd is plenty...  Best ram, ect.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks



#2 Mtrader

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:42 PM

Make sure you have good graphic cards.


You are on your own. This is for demonstration only.
JV

#3 q4wer

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 12:06 AM

it means that you cannot use a laptop, i guess. has to be a desk top.



#4 Venatici

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 04:34 AM

I can help you. Clarify: a) What is your budget. B) Will you assemble it yourself.c) Any thing that you will reuse from current PC (monitors, case)? I assume its for a windows 10 O.S.



#5 opinionated

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 10:18 AM

Yes,

 

It has to be a desktop,  I am using a laptop now an Asus Intel I7 with 8gigs of ram and it loads up after a few hours of operation. And it will probably be Windows 10 although I do not like it mainly because of the privacy issues I've heard about.  I would rather have windows 8...  But I am sure performance is better on 10.  I will be using two monitors from current rig and adding a third 21-27 inch.  My budget is really open as it is a rig I want to last... But from what I am seeing about 1,000 -1500.00   and it will be my trading rig only. I will keep my current one for the family desktop.  It has three HD's but they are older 6 years or so and do not wish to clog the pipeline so to speak. Also from what I see alot of storage is not important on a trading only rig.

 

My main complaint from everyone I have used up to this date is the loading up. Meaning after running a few hours with a few programs open, charts running and scanning it slows way down.  One thing I am also confused about is Graphics IE- video card. From what I am reading some rigs don't plug monitors into a card but hard wire direct to mother board? Also liquid cooled?  That scares me, is it reliable?  can't get my head around water being pumped through my rig. just want a cheap optical drive for loading software if needed.

 

On a side not I have seen a few nice looking Gaming computers with the 7th gen I-5's that seem very nice just used for around 1,000.00 And yes I will build it unless I can find some place that will not charge much, or because of their price on parts the difference is minimal.

 

I did find this place that seems very reasonable,  I will include a link to one I was considering.

 

https://www.ibuypowe...i7-Configurator

 

 

Thank you so much Venatici, 

 

Keith


Edited by opinionated, 01 December 2017 - 10:26 AM.


#6 Venatici

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 02:13 PM

OK, will try to be succinct, but there is a lot to cover.

I used the machine specs you forwarded as the basis for the build you should aim, I say basis because the box you forward is neither a gaming box or a professional station.

 

To start you need a decent case, something quality built that will last and will accommodate any future update and fairly sound isolating.

Go for a:

Phantek - Eclipse p400S ATX mid tower. 80$

The 350W power supply on your base model is tight. You can go for a 500W model, but if it is to last and again accommodates future upgrade you should go for:

Power supply: Corsair builder CXM 750W Modular 80 plus bronze PSU 69.99$

The motherboard suggest is over the top for what you need, I suggest the one below whic is almost 75$ for the same delivery of goods.

Motherboard: Gigabyte LGA1151 Intel Z170 ATX DDR4 Motherboards GA-Z170-HD3P 145$

Storage (hard drive). Here you want to go for pure speed to precisely reduce that annoying loading issue you mention. In this case go for a solid state more specifically a M.2. Go for 256GB, you dont need more for a trading station.

Samsung 960 EVO Series - 250GB PCIe NVMe - M.2 Internal SSD (MZ-V6E250BW) 128$

Memory, do yourself a favour go for 16 GB its just ridiculous to go for less. The DDR4 are slightly more expensive, you can go for a DDR3 that deliver similar speeds but drink more, so spend more electricity, even if its cheaper when you buy.

2x8GB Patriot Viper 4 DDR4-3400MHz 145$

Now the CPU. You dont need a Core I7, but I understand that you want it to last for along time. If you want to save money go for a Core I5

Intel Core i7-7700 Desktop Processor 8M Cache, 3.6GHz (Max Turbo Frequency 4.20GHz) 7th Generation 299.98$ (the one on your link)

Intel Core i5 6500 3.20 GHz Quad Core Skylake Desktop Processor, Socket LGA 1151, 6MB Cache BX80662I56500 195$

Regarding the cooling for the CPU, you absolutely do NOT need water cooling. You are not overclocking  anything or doing any mooding.

You could use the cooler that comes by default with the intel CPU. Sill if you want to be extra careful and cover future upgrades you go for:

Be quiet! BK002 Shadow Rock CPU cooler 48$ Its big! But it delivers, set it to lower rotation it will deliver with utmost silence. You will appreciate a silent machine running when you will stand next to one. You will realise that vanilla PC are so noisy.

Lastly the graphics card. The one on the link is a mid range gaming card. It will support your monitors for sure but its not designed for this purpose.

Still if you want to spend equivalent money for equivalent power you should go for:

PNY NVIDIA Quadro K1200 - ( VCQK1200DP-PB) 310$
The graphics card above is very good, the card will support 4 monitors with 4k resolution. No offence but i reckon yours are not. Mind what type of connectors your monitors support! Adapters might be needed.
So you can go for much cheaper for plain monitors.
PNY NVIDIA Quadro P600 Professional Graphics Board - VCQP600-PB)  for 160$(?)
I added to you are likely to spend more money than this. In things that do not come to mind. Like cabling, adaptors, arms for the monitors or otherwise bigger desk.
I hope i have not forgot anything, it was a busy day. Feel free to ask anything, as you can imagine i skipped alot of technical stuff.
All the best,
 
P.S,- If attaching a external drive, for god sake use the 3.1 USB port! USB ports are not all born alike.


#7 opinionated

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 09:31 PM

Thank you so much for taking the time to advise,  It is priceless to me.  Just a few things,  First as you say the monitors I have are not 4 k I'm sure as they are about 6 years old but did not think it would make much difference. But if you think it would I will lean that way. Can you recomentd a mid range current monitor I can be on the lookout for?  And the power supply shown, is upgraded free to the next one not sure but think it was a 600w.  As far as water cooled if not needed I'd rather not but heat is I know a rigs worst enemy. So if you think its best will go that way as well.  I agree with the HD...

 

 

Mother board, Gott'cha   As far at the chip will there be much performance in the I-5 you spoke of vers. the I-7 7th gen?  I wanna be smart, but be prepared. 

The slowing on current rigs I think is because of ram, not HD access speed. And Agree that 16 is probably better, should I bump to 32 or is 16 plenty?  And am I correct that the older, slower ram is probably the clog in the pipeline I have always experienced? As far as external HD I was not planning to use one,  But would you suggest one for regular backups?

 

As far as the video options I know nothing and will for sure take your advise.

 

Thanks.

 

As I said your time and sharing of knowledge is greatly appreciated.


Edited by opinionated, 01 December 2017 - 09:37 PM.


#8 Venatici

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 10:42 AM

Hi! I think you are fine with the current monitors, you are already used to them and i guess you wont notice the difference. 

The 600W is ok, specially if you are aiming for a lower spec. (as in lower CPU and graphics card).

Heat will not be a problem, because you are not overclocking, the case is big (mid-tower) and had ventilation fans (which should be run a lower speeds for low noise levels).

Back to the CPU issue, there is big savings to be done with a core lower than i7. From what you told me, you will only trade from this machine. No number crunching, no heavy code parsing etc.

I have a core I5 on my best PC, which i do use to do some moderate number crunching. My opinion is that i7 is a vanity issue if you are not playing games with it.

The 16Gb of RAM is sufficient, once you have all applications running on memory, having extra memory does not increase performance. Even recently there is some debate that running 8Gb will do. And that is the case for many users. But having several applications open, plus a few browsers (graphs application + you broker platform for example) open will take memory and you can see difference there. Plus no big saving to be done between 8Gb and 16Gb. Stick with 16GB.

As for common bottlenecks, most of the time is not RAM. But the HD and the motherboard!

Once you are running on the M.2 you will not believe how fast it loads (2 to 3 seconds).

Yes, its a must! Backup! Backup! get a good external drive, with a 3.1 USB port. They are expensive but so very fast. Backup everything! If speed of backup (or volume) is not a issue for you, good for a cheap storage device. I personally have 2 sets, a local (attached to PCs) and a cloud storage device.

Regarding monitor. For  top of mid range go for a Dell UltraSharp 27 (pay no more than 500$) 

For cheaper option go for BenQ GW2765HT 280$ good resolution but with higher latency, not a issue if you are not playing games. All 27 inch as i believe you are looking for.

Hope it helps.

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to advise,  It is priceless to me.  Just a few things,  First as you say the monitors I have are not 4 k I'm sure as they are about 6 years old but did not think it would make much difference. But if you think it would I will lean that way. Can you recomentd a mid range current monitor I can be on the lookout for?  And the power supply shown, is upgraded free to the next one not sure but think it was a 600w.  As far as water cooled if not needed I'd rather not but heat is I know a rigs worst enemy. So if you think its best will go that way as well.  I agree with the HD...

 

 

Mother board, Gott'cha   As far at the chip will there be much performance in the I-5 you spoke of vers. the I-7 7th gen?  I wanna be smart, but be prepared. 

The slowing on current rigs I think is because of ram, not HD access speed. And Agree that 16 is probably better, should I bump to 32 or is 16 plenty?  And am I correct that the older, slower ram is probably the clog in the pipeline I have always experienced? As far as external HD I was not planning to use one,  But would you suggest one for regular backups?

 

As far as the video options I know nothing and will for sure take your advise.

 

Thanks.

 

As I said your time and sharing of knowledge is greatly appreciated.



#9 AEdev

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 05:26 PM

I have done laptop repair for a few decades and currently mostly do backend algorithm and graphics development (drawing custom charts from raw tick data). So I will just try to explain what I would do if I was in your position.

 

If you live in a fairly large city I would check if there is a local PC builder that can construct (or may already have one built) what they call a "bare bones" system. These are sold at various levels of completeness. Some all you need to do is plug in your old keyboard, mouse and monitor for the more complete levels. At minimal they should come with case, power supply and mother board. With the minimal you would need to add the missing components that meet your specifications. The PC builder should have a good idea of the components that will work together and would use those when assembling. If a hardware problem later develops the PC builder would be local. I definitely would not by a modern system second hand as there probably is a good reason they are selling it that you may or may not notice until some time later.

 

I think a 4K monitor could make a big difference. Assuming you now have just full HD (1920 x 1080). A 4k monitor could be like several monitors in one. This very much would depend on the programs used and your eyesight though. You would probably be best served with the latest version of Windows if you go with a 4k monitor.

 

For graphics card I would use the cheapest I could find that could support the number of monitors I wanted to use. Modern graphics cards are mostly bent towards 3D performance and AFAIK trading platforms do not off load any work to the GPU (graphics processor). You should be careful with the type and number of output ports the card has so that you can reuse as much as possible your old cables and monitors. 

 

The main CPU is where I would splurge and get the most capable I could afford. I would probably go with the new AMD threadripper models, they supposedly currently provide the best bang for the buck in the ongoing Intel vs AMD war. They can outperform even the new Intel core i9 for workstation loads while costing less money. If your trading platforms are anything like mine then they would probably perform best with more available CPU threads for doing concurrent data calculations. I wouldn't mess with liquid cooling or anything exotic like that, sounds like it would be an expensive maintenance nightmare. 

 

For RAM I would go with 16 or 32 GB and if I had enough left over in my budget then get a SSD as the primary drive.

 

If anything is unclear, just ask and I will try to explain it better.


Edited by AEdev, 02 December 2017 - 05:33 PM.


#10 opinionated

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 07:21 PM

I have done laptop repair for a few decades and currently mostly do backend algorithm and graphics development (drawing custom charts from raw tick data). So I will just try to explain what I would do if I was in your position.

 

If you live in a fairly large city I would check if there is a local PC builder that can construct (or may already have one built) what they call a "bare bones" system. These are sold at various levels of completeness. Some all you need to do is plug in your old keyboard, mouse and monitor for the more complete levels. At minimal they should come with case, power supply and mother board. With the minimal you would need to add the missing components that meet your specifications. The PC builder should have a good idea of the components that will work together and would use those when assembling. If a hardware problem later develops the PC builder would be local. I definitely would not by a modern system second hand as there probably is a good reason they are selling it that you may or may not notice until some time later.

 

I think a 4K monitor could make a big difference. Assuming you now have just full HD (1920 x 1080). A 4k monitor could be like several monitors in one. This very much would depend on the programs used and your eyesight though. You would probably be best served with the latest version of Windows if you go with a 4k monitor.

 

For graphics card I would use the cheapest I could find that could support the number of monitors I wanted to use. Modern graphics cards are mostly bent towards 3D performance and AFAIK trading platforms do not off load any work to the GPU (graphics processor). You should be careful with the type and number of output ports the card has so that you can reuse as much as possible your old cables and monitors. 

 

The main CPU is where I would splurge and get the most capable I could afford. I would probably go with the new AMD threadripper models, they supposedly currently provide the best bang for the buck in the ongoing Intel vs AMD war. They can outperform even the new Intel core i9 for workstation loads while costing less money. If your trading platforms are anything like mine then they would probably perform best with more available CPU threads for doing concurrent data calculations. I wouldn't mess with liquid cooling or anything exotic like that, sounds like it would be an expensive maintenance nightmare. 

 

For RAM I would go with 16 or 32 GB and if I had enough left over in my budget then get a SSD as the primary drive.

 

If anything is unclear, just ask and I will try to explain it better.

 

 

Thanks so much,

 

I think I agree on the monitor upgrade,  and the idea of a bare bones case set-up.  And the CPU idea sounds great as well. a fast ssd HD, nice usb card. But you say buy the cheapest video card?  This seems counter productive if it is important enough to spend 5-6 hundred dollars on 4k monitors. I am going to run 3 monitors so a card that supports 4 is the norm. But the speed and ram on the card is important as well from what I've heard. And it seems a cheap card would create that clog in the pipeline so to speak.  In every computer I have theres always been a clog in the pipeline. Thats why after a few hours running my system seems to slow down and needs a reboot. I do NOT want water cooled if it is not needed trust me!  I am shocked but Walmart carries some very nice systems.  Don't laugh take a look...

 

https://www.walmart....power-computers