4 replies to this topic

[Rogerdodger]

UK has free health care, and now free death care.
Free Soylent Green is served in the cafeteria.
Splendid idea, saving money all around.

Top UK doctor's chilling claim: NHS kills off 130,000 elderly patients a year...

NHS doctors are prematurely ending the lives of thousands of elderly hospital patients because they are difficult to manage or to free up beds, a senior consultant claimed yesterday.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 20 June 2012 - 08:48 AM.

[Geomean]

What is disturbing about the story is not the bizarre headline or outlandish sensationalism, but that no where do the reporters inquire about or describe what information is provided to the patients or what the patient's decisions and desires had been.

Were the patient's wishes followed? What are the procedures used to determine those wishes?

My father, absolutely lucid and rational til the end, after consultation with his regular doctors and a team of palliative care physicians and clergy, refused additional medical treatment after his terminal cancer had metastasized. What he wanted was provision for pain and comfort at an in-patient hospice facility, which included the sedation he ultimately requested.

My mother, also lucid and rational til the end, with terminal cancer, after consultation with a palliative care team, also refused additional medical treatment and elected in home hospice with provision for pain and comfort. Ultimately the pain became too great and she was transported to the hospital for pain management, where she died pain free and lucid to the end.

My sister, neither lucid nor rational at the end, with Parkinson's, after consultation with her doctors and family while still in control of most of her faculties, decided that she wanted any and all medical treatment that was available. If she was unconscious, we were to "find out why".

Ultimately even the best anti-biotics available could not ward off the infections her weakened condition fostered, and she too died, unconscious, in hospital where she was transported for one final effort to save her. The doctors said they could do nothing further.

The key for me was that in each case my relations had made their wishes known. Their personal autonomy was the key point to emphasize in these end of life type of situations. I found each of their decisions sound, and fit their needs.

Indeed, my sister's direction to "find out why", and to do everything possible, turned out fine for her for a good while, the doctor's brought her back from near death on four occasions after we told them of her wishes. After the first occasion ---after months of rehab--- she finished the book she was writing, "When Parkinson's Strikes Early" which has gone thru two printings by her publisher and which has been of help to others with Parkinson's.

On the other hand, she ultimately spent 4.5 years in a skilled nursing facility, essentially frozen for the last year and a half, unable to move, in extreme pain frequently, and suffering from Parkinson's and medication induced pyschosis, a terrible way to "live".

But she was terribly afraid to die.

So, bottom line-- it is best to plan for one's medical needs in advance, and to make known to your family and caregivers, in writing, how you want your life to end, if there is any ability to control that process.

Most attorneys now days, in addition to a will and trust, will provide you with "advance directives" in which you provide your caregivers with the directions on how you want to be treated, and powers of attorney for health care decisions.

Advance directives are also available for free, on line.

My dad went so far as to have his do not resuscitate (DNR) order scotch taped to his coffee table. He didn't want an EMT to do something contra his desires.

[A DNR is a request not to have cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) if your heart stops or if you stop breathing. (Unless given other instructions, hospital staff will try to help all patients whose heart has stopped or who have stopped breathing.) You can use an advance directive form or tell your doctor that you don't want to be resuscitated. In this case, a DNR order is put in your medical chart by your doctor. DNR orders are accepted by doctors and hospitals in all states.] End of Life Issues Link

Edited by Geomean, 20 June 2012 - 11:25 AM.

[stocks]

Symptoms of a sick culture

Thomas Lopez, a 21-year old lifeguard in South Florida was fired for helping rescue a man drowning 1,500 feet outside of his designated zone.

The contractor that manages the lifeguard service has explained that the matter is out of their hands, too. Liability issues -- i.e., fear of lawsuits, insurance requirements, etc. -- demand a zero-tolerance
policy for unauthorized lifesaving. Does anyone doubt that there's something about the legal regime in this country that's creating a headwind against basic human decency? And I'm not just talking about trial lawyers and the politicians who love them.

Last year, in Alameda, Calif., a man walked into the chilly -- but not exactly freezing -- waters of the Bay Area to commit suicide. It was a slow affair. The police and firefighters got there in plenty of time.
But, due to union-backed rules, they simply declined to save the man's life. They just stood on the beach and watched.
Fire Chief Ricci Zombeck was asked what he would have done if it were a child, rather than a suicidal adult, slowly drowning out there. He responded that if he were on duty he'd have let the kid drown,
but if he was off duty he would have saved him.

These days, liberals are celebrating the moral triumph of their health-care reform. We're helping the uninsured! We're making government more humane and compassionate. And from one perspective, that's all true, I suppose.

But we're also changing the culture in ways the changes are subtle, even invisible (though if you follow the British media coverage of their state-run health system, you get a hint of what's coming;
prepare for ever more debates about rationing, denying treatment to the "unworthy," euthanasia and the rest).


http://townhall.com/...ture/page/full/

[voltaire]

What is disturbing about the story is not the bizarre headline or outlandish sensationalism, but that no where do the reporters inquire about or describe what information is provided to the patients or what the patient's decisions and desires had been.

Were the patient's wishes followed? What are the procedures used to determine those wishes?

My father, absolutely lucid and rational til the end, after consultation with his regular doctors and a team of palliative care physicians and clergy, refused additional medical treatment after his terminal cancer had metastasized. What he wanted was provision for pain and comfort at an in-patient hospice facility, which included the sedation he ultimately requested.

My mother, also lucid and rational til the end, with terminal cancer, after consultation with a palliative care team, also refused additional medical treatment and elected in home hospice with provision for pain and comfort. Ultimately the pain became too great and she was transported to the hospital for pain management, where she died pain free and lucid to the end.

My sister, neither lucid nor rational at the end, with Parkinson's, after consultation with her doctors and family while still in control of most of her faculties, decided that she wanted any and all medical treatment that was available. If she was unconscious, we were to "find out why".

Ultimately even the best anti-biotics available could not ward off the infections her weakened condition fostered, and she too died, unconscious, in hospital where she was transported for one final effort to save her. The doctors said they could do nothing further.

The key for me was that in each case my relations had made their wishes known. Their personal autonomy was the key point to emphasize in these end of life type of situations. I found each of their decisions sound, and fit their needs.

Indeed, my sister's direction to "find out why", and to do everything possible, turned out fine for her for a good while, the doctor's brought her back from near death on four occasions after we told them of her wishes. After the first occasion ---after months of rehab--- she finished the book she was writing, "When Parkinson's Strikes Early" which has gone thru two printings by her publisher and which has been of help to others with Parkinson's.

On the other hand, she ultimately spent 4.5 years in a skilled nursing facility, essentially frozen for the last year and a half, unable to move, in extreme pain frequently, and suffering from Parkinson's and medication induced pyschosis, a terrible way to "live".

But she was terribly afraid to die.

So, bottom line-- it is best to plan for one's medical needs in advance, and to make known to your family and caregivers, in writing, how you want your life to end, if there is any ability to control that process.

Most attorneys now days, in addition to a will and trust, will provide you with "advance directives" in which you provide your caregivers with the directions on how you want to be treated, and powers of attorney for health care decisions.

Advance directives are also available for free, on line.

My dad went so far as to have his do not resuscitate (DNR) order scotch taped to his coffee table. He didn't want an EMT to do something contra his desires.

[A DNR is a request not to have cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) if your heart stops or if you stop breathing. (Unless given other instructions, hospital staff will try to help all patients whose heart has stopped or who have stopped breathing.) You can use an advance directive form or tell your doctor that you don't want to be resuscitated. In this case, a DNR order is put in your medical chart by your doctor. DNR orders are accepted by doctors and hospitals in all states.] End of Life Issues Link

Geomean

An interesting and common human story.

Its something must of us will go through.

Its difficult and I applaud your handling of it.

However, many want to idealise these situations rather than face the practicalities.

Why do so many get caught up in ideology etc rather than what seems obvious.

I won't say more as I understand your pain.

Voltaire

[Dex]

[A DNR is a request not to have cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) if your heart stops or if you stop breathing. (Unless given other instructions, hospital staff will try to help all patients whose heart has stopped or who have stopped breathing.) You can use an advance directive form or tell your doctor that you don't want to be resuscitated. In this case, a DNR order is put in your medical chart by your doctor. DNR orders are accepted by doctors and hospitals in all states.] End of Life Issues Link

As a society we will need to deal with this and issues similar to Alzheimer's. My mother has it and do not want to go out that way. Somehow and at some point a person should be able to die with dignity.