9 replies to this topic

[Rogerdodger]

Man, 22, Dies After Liver Transplant Refused
10:06pm UK, Monday July 20, 2009

Gary with his mother just days before he died.

A 22-year-old alcoholic has died after being refused a life-saving liver transplant because he was too ill to leave hospital and prove he could stay sober.
Gary Reinbach, who died in hospital on Monday from a severe case of liver cirrhosis, did not qualify for a donor liver under strict NHS rules.
The alcoholic, from Dagenham, Essex, had admitted binge drinking since he was 13 but was only taken to hospital for the first time with liver problems 10 weeks ago.
He was never discharged.

His mother Madeline Hanshaw, 44, said: "These rules are really unfair."
She told the Evening Standard: "I'm not saying you should give a transplant to someone who is in and out of hospital all the time and keeps damaging themselves, but just for people like Gary, who made a mistake and never got a second chance."

She said he was "desperate to recover" but had deteriorated quickly.
Mr Reinbach's family said he had started drinking aged 11 when his parents split up and drank heavily from the age of 13.
He had recently tried to give up and had signed up for support group Alcoholics Anonymous just weeks before he was taken into hospital, they said.
His brother Luke, 18, told the Evening Standard: "They never gave him the chance to show he could change."
LINK

[*JB*]

From memory...SOME from just a FEW of articles I've read in just the last month or so -- *1000s of women were given a death sentence due to the denial of meds for Breast Cancer by the UK NHS...because of AGE. *Canada's death RATE from cancer is double the US, at least for now. *16,000 people in British Columbia have been on a waiting list for hip replacements for over a year. *People with PAD (i.e. circulation problems in limbs) are dying or losing limbs due to the year PLUS waiting time to be seen by a specialist in the UK AND Canada. *it takes at LEAST 6 months to get an MRI in Canada Enough, there are many more. However, I'm getting pi$$ed about what is being considered for the US and I want to sleep tonight. I'll just say this, if this so called "reform" -- as outlined so far -- is implemented in the US, it will cause more deaths (and suffering) than from all the wars the US has EVER fought. SOME of what NEEDS to be done is -- 1 -- Tort reform and mal-practice insurance reform 2 -- require all people to get medical insurance (work out credits for low income working people not eligible for medicaid) 3 -- require all Insurance companies to cover. 4 -- require all people eligible for medicaid to enroll 5 -- except Medicare, Medicaid --- allow everyone to get ins from any company in any state (apply employers contribution to employee's cost) and make all plans portable 6 -- form co-ops for ALL those not covered through existing groups/employers/Medicare/Medicaid 7 -- require all doctors to be General Practitioners for at least a day or 2 a week for first (say) 5 years -- now only 2% chose to do so EVER since the "money" is in the specialties

Edited by *JB*, 20 July 2009 - 11:32 PM.

[diogenes227]

A NATION IN DENIAL.

Although data is not collected to make comparisons with other nations wholly accurate, it is becoming obvious that the US has begun to fall behind other nations on wait times for medical procedures in many areas...

And:

"The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close" -- Business Week -- The Doctor will see you in three months maybe

[OEXCHAOS]

John, You're missing one thing: Price Discipline. I.e., there is none. I think you'd get it if you required everyone to have an MSA, even the poor. Make that money available for other things after it accumulates so folks know it's their money and it NEED NOT BE SPENT on healthcare. I posit that a LOT of minor ailments would be dealt with by nurse practitioners or at Walmart clinics rather than at ER's and other more expensive facilities. My experience doing a renovation is that poorer folks utilize health care inefficiently and improperly and that lower wage folks who don't have co-pays or enough "skin in the game" over consume health care. My father's firm noted that when they started paying for 100% of health insurance with no co-pay, the hourly and lower-salary folks and their family had roughly 3 times the number of doctor visits as did the partners and their families. True story: we had a number of $10/hour folks working on our place; painting, helping to pull wire, and doing other things that we either felt were too dangerous for us or that we simply couldn't finish by ourselves in the allotted time. In a few months, one fellow and his girlfriend saw the doctor 3 times for things like stomach ailments and poison ivy. Another fellow hurt his shoulder drilling holes in joists (like, welcome to the club) and he saw the doctor 3 times in 10 days and had physical therapy. Meanwhile Mrs. Chaos and I worked with our injuries. These two folks consumed more health care in 10 weeks than we consumed in 10 years. What's funny, is that what little health care we did consume, we regret as it cost far more than it should have (prophylactic tetanus shots at several hundred dollars, WUWT?). We don't have a healthcare crisis, we've got a healthcare cost crisis.

[Rogerdodger]

Mark you are right on. It's funny what people demand when others are paying for it. Your hole-drilling helper would probably just "shake it off" if it was out of his pocket book. But when it's free, he needed "rehab" (and probably a lawyer.) How long will the lines be when rehab's free? And what cost controls will be put in place to provide service only to the "worthy" (read young and healthy.) I know people who you would call "uninsured". They are what I call self-insured. When they go to the doctor, they disclose that they are not insured and will be paying cash. Many doctors offer big discount for self-paying cash patients. The colonoscopy was $600 cash. Triple or more with insurance. Trip to the opthamologist for an extensive exam: $72 cash, over $400 with insurance.

[MaryAM]

We also have corruption crises. When my mother went into a nursing home three years ago - the first month they sent out a bill for $30 thousand - JUST FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS - my mom had both GM health insurance and medicare. I called the medicare fraud investigation line. They said they simply could not address the issue because there were so many problems. There was enough laxative on that bill to blow the {bleeeep} off of a horse and enough pain medication to kill her. Obviously the health care costs are up because of fraud and abuse by people who don't care whether or not we have a country. Mary Anne

[OEXCHAOS]

We also have corruption crises. When my mother went into a nursing home three years ago - the first month they sent out a bill for $30 thousand - JUST FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS - my mom had both GM health insurance and medicare. I called the medicare fraud investigation line. They said they simply could not address the issue because there were so many problems. There was enough laxative on that bill to blow the {bleeeep} off of a horse and enough pain medication to kill her. Obviously the health care costs are up because of fraud and abuse by people who don't care whether or not we have a country.
Mary Anne

I'll bet that if you were cutting those checks instead of medicare, there'd have been a talk or two and perhaps some folks with an extra oriface after you were done, too.

Mark

[*JB*]

A NATION IN DENIAL.

Although data is not collected to make comparisons with other nations wholly accurate, it is becoming obvious that the US has begun to fall behind other nations on wait times for medical procedures in many areas...

And:

"The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close" -- Business Week -- The Doctor will see you in three months maybe

I don't get why you "value" and posted this article from 2 years ago. In good part, it is in defense of Michael Moore's "Sicko". It is written "UN authored" in one of the least respected "business" (or otherwise) publications there is (one you can buy for $1 -- the magazine company, not a copy -- if you can afford to take on their debt).

Many of the quotes in the article are patently FALSE or completely out of context. NO links to studies or other sources what-so-ever.

The quote you give at the end of your post is written to confuse. It DOES NOT say that people had to wait 2 years. I read the Commonwealth Study -- a group who is about promoting health care for the poor -- and it's study does NOT support the conclusion implied here. AT MOST it says people THEY SURVEYED have had "to wait" in the past 2 years (NOT wait 2 years)because of cost -- i.e. mainly the poor who use clinics.

It does not go into WHY and what alternatives they did or did not have or chose to pursue.

Edited by *JB*, 21 July 2009 - 08:41 PM.

[*JB*]

John,

You're missing one thing: Price Discipline.

I missed a lot, this is BIG and complicated topic.

Personal responsibility and "skin in the game" is not something I touched on...that's why I used the word SOME things that need to be done.

There is a old quote -- "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it's free". I full agree with that and what you wrote. MSAs are something I fully support as a way to enable -- and require -- people to control costs.

Cheers.

[*JB*]

We also have corruption crises. When my mother went into a nursing home three years ago - the first month they sent out a bill for $30 thousand - JUST FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUGS - my mom had both GM health insurance and medicare. I called the medicare fraud investigation line. They said they simply could not address the issue because there were so many problems. There was enough laxative on that bill to blow the {bleeeep} off of a horse and enough pain medication to kill her. Obviously the health care costs are up because of fraud and abuse by people who don't care whether or not we have a country.
Mary Anne

I'll bet that if you were cutting those checks instead of medicare, there'd have been a talk or two and perhaps some folks with an extra oriface after you were done, too.

Mark

MaryAm and Mark --

Just a short note: 10-15% of ALL medicare billing is FRAUD. More proof that the government can not -- and never has been able -- to run ANYTHING efficiently and with out corruption....Are we really going to hand them control of 16% of the economy and something that will affect and threaten) the lives of millions?

TWO examples. They found 5 Pizza shops in Florida billing medicare as AIDS treatment centers. One Doctor billed for 4 colonoscopies(sp?) on the same person -- supposedly done the same day.