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But...but...but isn't American health care the best in the world?


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#1 diogenes227

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Posted 10 May 2019 - 10:20 AM

CLICK ON THE PHOTO FOR THE STORY

 


"If you've heard this story before, don't stop me because I'd like to hear it again," Groucho Marx (on market history?).

“I've learned in options trading simple is best and the obvious is often the most elusive to recognize.”

 

"The god of trading rewards persistence, experience and discipline, and absolutely nothing else."


#2 colion

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 02:50 PM

Lives in a $500K house.  Had insurance until she forgot to pay a premium and then chose not to renew.  Hmmm.



#3 diogenes227

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 07:53 PM

Lives in a $500K house.  Had insurance until she forgot to pay a premium and then chose not to renew.  Hmmm.

 

Once again, no surprise, you have again missed the point.; None of this is a question in most of the industrialized world. The phrase "only in America" is probably more apt;y applied to healthcare than to any of policy in the country. 

 

Now go research what happen with one  misses a payment or pays late for a COBRA plan (to say nothing about how it  may be the most expensive insurance option for any desperate someone who has just the job in which they had insurance).  Spoiler alert: if you actually consider looking into it, you will be slogging through a quagmire that once again shouldn't even be a question but is once again mostly "only in American"; and in the end you're likely to find it can't be reinstated because it's the most begrudging health-care stop-gap legislation ever concocted by people who never wanted anyone to have the option in the first place.

 

Now think about how flippant you've been citing that house as some kind of solution without knowing if her family has any equity in it, without knowing if her family can even make the next payment, with knowing how much other debt they like so many Americans have had to accumulate oftentimes beyond their control.  This is the central problem with the callous lack of a reasonable health care policy in this country -- far, far too many Americans are one illness, one accident, one loss of a job, one death in the family, one streak of bad luck, away from total desperation.  So in your mind she should eventually lose her home because her toddler got into a bad bottle of pills?  Sadly, many have already had to go that route.  Just look up the stats on health-care bankruptcies here versus the rest of the industrialized world.


"If you've heard this story before, don't stop me because I'd like to hear it again," Groucho Marx (on market history?).

“I've learned in options trading simple is best and the obvious is often the most elusive to recognize.”

 

"The god of trading rewards persistence, experience and discipline, and absolutely nothing else."


#4 colion

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 09:21 AM

The women is an adjunct professor and her husband works for a HVAC contractor.  They had insurance and then missed a payment although they could have had automatic payments taken care of by the insurance company or bank.  When the COBRA payment was missed the insurance company sent a "wake up" letter advising that a payment had been missed.  After missing a payment COBRA reinstatement would have been automatic if paid within the 30 day grace period.  Beyond that they purposely chose to not make other lower cost provisions such as HSA+HDCP or create a personal "rainy day" fund for two years.  That is irresponsible as is, IMO, gambling by not taking the kid into the ER.  

 

They have lived in the house for 3 years, including two years without health insurance, and obviously made mortgage and tax payments of an estimated $36K/y on a $550K house.  It is unlikely that they are living "hand to mouth" and do not have the means of obtaining health insurance or at least establishing a "rainy day" fund, as responsible folks would do.  This is not a situation of bankruptcy precipitated by health care concerns or being ineligible for Medicaid which is another discussion.

 

This is a typical VOX politicalization of a story that one cannot take at face value.


Edited by colion, 12 May 2019 - 09:25 AM.


#5 diogenes227

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 03:47 PM

That article is about the psychological effect on Americans of health care costs but evidently you don't understand that. If you're Jamie Dimon the effect is probably negligible, if you're a 50-year-old manager who's just been downsized, percentage-wise, the worry sky rockets, and if you're... Well, it varies according to myriad individual circumstances that are mostly, if not all, mitigated in every other industrialized society.

 

Below is a popular internet meme that appeared in 2016. As memes go it;'s been quite effective in the never-ending debate over the many obvious deficiencies of the American health-care system, but is it accurate or not?

 

YES AND NOT QUITE - a fairly long and comprehensive read

 

 

In short, using some very specific analyses, one could make the case that (at least within the last several years) about 643,000 Americans declared bankruptcy annually due to medical bills. But the accuracy of those analyses is open to question, the playing field has changed significantly since they were undertaken (due to the implementation of the ACA), and it’s far from an absolute that the other countries listed in the meme experience zero medical-related bankruptcies.

 


"If you've heard this story before, don't stop me because I'd like to hear it again," Groucho Marx (on market history?).

“I've learned in options trading simple is best and the obvious is often the most elusive to recognize.”

 

"The god of trading rewards persistence, experience and discipline, and absolutely nothing else."


#6 colion

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 04:28 PM

You miss the essence of the article.  It is a really a politicized push for Medicare expansion.  It demonstrates irresponsibility and poor money management of people like the Clarks.  Your extrapolation to bankruptcy is your agenda which raises the question - Clark is a good example - what % of the bankruptcy are due to poor money management/planning/etc.  If people like Clark go bankrupt they have themselves in large part to blame.  There is no way that a family paying over $40K/y just for mortgage and property tax cannot afford to establish some type of health care safety net even if it is only partial.  At the very least don't you think they could survive in a house/apartment/condo that costs considerably less? 

 

To your point, to be sure such circumstances are stressful but can be avoided by many if they were responsible individuals which Clark is not.  It is not acceptable, especially with a young kid, to even consider going without insurance and one needs to adjust lifestyle, etc. accordingly.


Edited by colion, 12 May 2019 - 04:34 PM.


#7 colion

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 04:43 PM

 

 

In short, using some very specific analyses, one could make the case that (at least within the last several years) about 643,000 Americans declared bankruptcy annually due to medical bills. But the accuracy of those analyses is open to question, the playing field has changed significantly since they were undertaken (due to the implementation of the ACA), and it’s far from an absolute that the other countries listed in the meme experience zero medical-related bankruptcies.

 

 

This is a red herring.



#8 *JB*

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 01:49 AM

The above chart is absolute BS!  i know for a fact that half the time Canada's rate is higher than the US.

 

 

How common is medical bankruptcy outside the United States?

If measured the same way in those countries as in the U S - VERY Common

The heart of the issue is “do you use the same counting methods in each nation

When you do, the differences between the US and other countries are not as great as media presents to the public

In the U S, claims of medical bankruptcy include situations where people lost 2 weeks or more of wages because they could not work due to being sick, or because they took care of sick people.

Lost wages, financial stress due to lost time from work is counted in the U S as a Medical Bankruptcy, and it does create a very large number of bankruptcies

http://www.pnhp.org/new_bankrupt...

That is the bankruptcy statistic used to evaluate the U S system against every U H C nation

It would then be logical to apply the same baseline to Canada and U K

 

https://www.quora.co...e-United-States

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