22 replies to this topic

[maineman]

Interesting article in today's (Tuesday Jan 16) New York Times science section re: safety of herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, etc. Very thorough and balanced. Please read it.

http://www.nytimes.c...xprod=permalink



comments?



mm

[endisnear]

Here's my comments...

i'll keep getting up at 4am, running 3 miles, eating my protien shakes, taking my vitamins, drinking my green tea, taking creatine, glutamine, amino acids, melatonin before bed, sleeping 7 hrs, being in better shape than any slob know, keeping 6% bodyfat year round and do it all over again tomorrow. You clowns can take your antidepressants, viagra, and eat your refined jelly doughnuts for breakfast and keep complaining while i LMAO.

The nyt article lists 123000 iherbal/vitamin incidents in 23 yrs compared to 1.5 million medication errors by doctors every year in medical industry....Am i living in the f'n twilight zone..geez.

A 2006 follow-up to the 1999 Institute of Medicine of the National Academies study found that medication errors are among the most common medical mistakes, harming at least 1.5 million people every year. According to the study, 400,000 preventable drug-related injuries occur each year in hospitals, 800,000 in long-term care settings, and roughly 530,000 among Medicare recipients in outpatient clinics. The report stated that these are likely to be conservative estimates. In 2000 alone, the extra medical costs incurred by preventable drug related injuries approximated $887 million -- and the study looked only at injuries sustained by Medicare recipients, a subset of clinic visitors. None of these figures take into account lost wages and productivity or other costs.[6]

http://en.wikipedia....cal_malpractice

you've been drinking your own koolaid too long MM...

[maineman]

Endisnear, Just a couple of comments. First, it appears you did not read the article, or the statistics correctly. If you are at all interested, try reading the article carefully. Looks like you missed the point. Second, why is it that some of "you" "health nuts" are always so angry, defensive and accusatory? Shees, I was sharing an article written in the New York Times and here you are going off like a disgruntled postal worker with an Uzi.... mm

[stocks]

Interesting article in today's (Tuesday Jan 16) New York Times science section re: safety of herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, etc. Very thorough and balanced. Please read it.

http://www.nytimes.c...xprod=permalink



comments?



mm

Irresponsible, January 16, 2007
Reviewer: William Martin (Providence, RI) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
As a scientist I found this book quite disappointing and found several instances where the author misinterprets the scientific literature. Here is one example of this distortion. There have been about 40 reasonably designed studies conducted on St Johns Wort for depression. In sum, the science has clearly demonstrated that SJW is efficacious. However there a few trials that have failed to find a beneficial effect...and for understandable reasons that have now been clarified, i.e. source, dose, number of subjects, etc. The author uses one of these federally funded studies to demean the value of saint johns wort and concludes that it does not work. That is simply irresponsible and untrue. This is analogous to testing 40 automobiles for their ability to get a person to work on time. In a few of the tests the person does not make it to work on time because either the car breaks down, there is too much traffic, the person leaves late or there is not enough gas in the tank. However, the vast majority of people make it to work on time. Using this authors logic, the conclusion would be that cars dont work for getting people to point B on time.

It appears that the author did a fair amount of research on this book and therefore knows that SJW is efficacious when used appropriately. The question then becomes why distort the truth, which I do not have an answer for.

As the book points out bloodroot is indeed caustic and I have used it myself. However it is not a dietary supplement. The person who used burnt off her nose by using bloodroot is one extreme example. After poking around on the internet the US justice system found her claim to be unfounded, yet the author of this book takes her word as gospel.

Comment | Was this review helpful to you? YesNo (Report this)

(Norman Rosenthal discovered seasonal affective disorder and is the world's foremost expert. He
uses St John's Wort in his practice.)



5 of 6 people found the following review helpful:
Rife with errors, poorly researched, January 16, 2007
Reviewer: Marc S. Ullman "MarcU" (New York, NY) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
Whatever Mr. Hurley's agenda might be, he is free to have is own point of view and to write about it. The essential problem with this book is that its central thesis is undercut by the incredibly poor job of fact checking by Mr. Hurley and his editors. Let's take two very fundamental mistakes that could have been corrected with even the most basic fact checking.

For one, the author couldn't even get the name of the CEO of Natrol, who he claims to have interviewed, correct. The name of Natrol's founder and Chairman of the Board is Elliott Balbert. Mr. Hurley repeatedly refers to him as Mitchell Balbert. Did anyone bother to do any fact checking? This mistake could have been "discovered" if anyone associated with the publication of this book had simply gone to Natrol's web page and verified the name of the company's Chairman of the Board. [...]

Let's take another, even more fundamental error given the subject matter of this publication. Mr. Hurley discusses the plight of a woman who claims that her nose fell off because of a product she put on it to treat what she thought was skin cancer. Suspend reality and set aside whatever questions you have about someone who claims to be a nurse self-treating her skin cancer in the manner described by Mr. Hurley. The real problem is that any topical product such as the one described in this section of Mr. Hurley's book is not a dietary supplement, and cannot be legally sold as one in the United States. By law such products are drugs. If either Mr. Hurley or his editors had bothered to look at the Federal Food Drug and Cosmetic Act, they could have avoided this fundamental mistake.

If the author could make these kinds of basic mistakes and his editors could not bother to undertake the effort to fact check such basic assertions like these, what level of confidence should anyone have in Mr. Hurley's "facts"?

In the interests of full disclosure, I am an attorney specializing in food in drug law. Many of my clients are in the dietary supplement/natural products industry.

http://www.amazon.co...t...TF8&s=books

[stocks]

Interesting article in today's (Tuesday Jan 16) New York Times science section re: safety of herbs, vitamins, minerals, homeopathic remedies, etc. Very thorough and balanced. Please read it.

http://www.nytimes.c...xprod=permalink



comments?



mm

http://www.normanros...ohns_wort.shtml

Here is Dr Rosethal's book on St John's Wort. This man is an expert. The author of
the NY Times piece is a buffon.

[maineman]

Another angry "healthy" person... oh well. I'm still not sure what makes some of you so dysfunctionally angry. And you missed the point and statistics of the NYT article, too. Oh well. "Faith" is a powerful construct.


In case anyone is interested here's a good overview of St. John's Wort, the way we deluded, ignorant, drug-company whore doctors look at information...





Classification:

Nutritional Supplements
Nutraceuticals
Phytomedicinals

NOTE: In the US, nutraceuticals are marketed under the Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA). Consequently, scientific data supporting claimed benefit(s) are not always available for nutraceuticals as they are for traditional pharmaceuticals since nutraceuticals are not regulated as drugs. Consumers should also note that rigid quality control standards are not required for nutraceuticals; substantial variability can occur in both the potency and the purity of these products. Monographs on nutraceuticals are included in CP when reliable clinical data are available. The information presented below is condensed from the best clinical data we could find.

Description: St. John's wort, Hypericum perforatum, is an aromatic perennial native to Europe, parts of Africa and Asia, and the western US. Its yellow flowers are especially bright on June 24, the traditional birthday of St. John the Baptist, hence the name "St. John's wort". Other names include "goat weed" or "klamath weed". The leaves and flowering tops of Hypericum perforatum yield about 0.1% hypericin, pseudohypericin, and related naphthodianthrones. Flavonoids such as amentoflavone, luteolin, kaempferol, and quercetin and the glycosides hyperoside and rutinoside have also been identified in the plant.

St. John's wort is widely used in Europe for treatment of depression, dysthymia, and sleep disturbances. The German Commission E has recognized St. John's wort as a "modestly effective" antidepressant. Two meta-analysis published in 1996[1699] and 2000[1698] , respectively, revealed that St. John's wort did possess clinical antidepressant effects; however, most studies reviewed contained at least one methodological error. In 2002, the results of a multicenter trial conducted by the US National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) were reported. The trial compared treatment with St. John's wort (as LI 160™ extract), sertraline (an SSRI) and placebo in patients with moderate major depressive disorder.[3573] While St. John's wort was no more effective than placebo in the patients studied, sertraline was also no more effective than placebo, and experts have criticized the trial design as having a lack of sufficient sensitivity.

A phase I study of synthetic hypericin for the treatment of HIV infection was reported in 1999; the study failed to demonstrate anti-retroviral activity or positive changes in CD4+ counts, and further clinical trials were halted.[2480] Oral synthetic hypericin is being investigated as a treatment for glioblastoma. Initial phase II studies in glioblastoma were completed by Nexell (formerly VIMRx, Inc.) in 1998 under the name "VIMRxyn®", but it is uncertain if further phase II and III trials are planned. St. John's wort has been used historically for insomnia and has been applied topically after maceration to promote healing of minor burns or wounds. Because of its photodynamic activity, topical application of synthetic hypericin (topical VimRxyn®) in combination with light therapy is being investigated for the treatment of psoriasis, cutaneous T-cell lymphoma, and verruca vulgaris.

Mechanism of Action: There is much debate over the exact mechanism of action of St. John's wort, particularly in the treatment of depression. Hypericin, one of the active ingredients, is used as a marker for standardization of processing. Other naphthodianthrones (e.g., pseudohypericin), the flavonoids (e.g., quercetin), and hyperforin are thought to be needed in combination with hypericin for antidepressant clinical effects. Recent trials in Germany are focusing on hyperforin, which is found primarily in the stamens and other reproductive parts of the plant, as a major contributor to antidepressant activity. It is postulated that the final activity of St. John's wort is the result of cumulative actions on a variety of neurotransmitters and steroid hormones.

•Neuropharmacology: Although it is not possible at this time to identify with certainty the active antidepressant principle(s) in St. John's wort, clinically, an antidepressant effect has been documented.[1698] [1699]

Animal data indicate that hypericum extract (LI 160™) can inhibit serotonin uptake by postsynaptic receptors.[1697] Serotonin receptors are down-regulated in this process, leading to increased serotonin levels. The effects of St. John's wort on serotonin are similar to, but less potent than, the SSRI class of antidepressants. Hypericum has also been reported to increase synaptic dopamine concentrations, possibly through inhibition of dopamine-beta-hydroxylase.[1697] Hyperforin, a component of hypericum extract, enhances the extracellular levels of dopamine, norepinephrine, and the excitatory amino acid glutamate, probably as a consequence of neuronal uptake inhibition.

Quercetin and xanthones contained in the leaves and roots of the St. John's wort plant have been shown to inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO) in rat brain in vitro studies. Hypericin does not have any significant inhibition of MAO types A and B in the human nervous system when administered at recommended clinical dosages. MAO inhibition alone appears to be an insufficient explanation of antidepressant effects of St. John's wort.[1697] The relative MAO inhibitory action of St. John's wort is currently thought to be less significant than that which occurs with commonly prescribed MAOIs (e.g., isocarboxazid, phenelzine, tranylcypromine).[1698]

Active ingredients such as xanthone, quercetin, and rutoside have weak inhibitory actions on catechol-O-methyl transferase (COMT). However, there is no evidence at this time that COMT-inhibition is a significant contributor to the activity of St. John's wort.[1697]

St. John's wort may increase the nighttime production of melatonin. Relaxant effects seen on EEG are similar to the tricyclic antidepressants.[1697] Other actions of St. John's wort include weak affinity for NMDA receptors and GABA receptors in vitro.

St. John's wort may exhibit peripheral pharmacologic effects. Via inhibitory actions on cytokines (e.g., interleukin-6), St. John's wort may help regulate cortisol production and release, which may contribute to antidepressant activity.[1697]



<b><i>•Phototoxic and Cytotoxic actions%

Another angry "healthy" person... oh well. I'm still not sure what makes some of you so dysfunctionally angry. And you missed the point and statistics of the NYT article, too. Oh well. "Faith" is a powerful construct.


In case anyone is interested here's a good overview of St. John's Wort, the way we deluded, ignorant, drug-company whore doctors look at information...





Classification:

Nutritional Supplements
Nutraceuticals
Phytomedicinals

NOTE: In the US, nutraceuticals are marketed under the Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA). Consequently, scientific data supporting claimed benefit(s) are not always available for nutraceuticals as they are for traditional pharmaceuticals since nutraceuticals are not regulated as drugs. Consumers should also note that rigid quality control standards are not required for nutraceuticals; substantial variability can occur in both the potency and the purity of these products. Monographs on nutraceuticals are included in CP when reliable clinical data are available. The information presented below is condensed from the best clinical data we could find.

Description: St. John's wort, Hypericum perforatum, is an aromatic perennial native to Europe, parts of Africa and Asia, and the western US. Its yellow flowers are especially bright on June 24, the traditional birthday of St. John the Baptist, hence the name "St. John's wort". Other names include "goat weed" or "klamath weed". The leaves and flowering tops of Hypericum perforatum yield about 0.1% hypericin, pseudohypericin, and related naphthodianthrones. Flavonoids such as amentoflavone, luteolin, kaempferol, and quercetin and the glycosides hyperoside and rutinoside have also been identified in the plant.

St. John's wort is widely used in Europe for treatment of depression, dysthymia, and sleep disturbances. The German Commission E has recognized St. John's wort as a "modestly effective" antidepressant. Two meta-analysis published in 1996[1699] and 2000[1698] , respectively, revealed that St. John's wort did possess clinical antidepressant effects; however, most studies reviewed contained at least one methodological error. In 2002, the results of a multicenter trial conducted by the US National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) were reported. The trial compared treatment with St. John's wort (as LI 160™ extract), sertraline (an SSRI) and placebo in patients with moderate major depressive disorder.[3573] While St. John's wort was no more effective than placebo in the patients studied, sertraline was also no more effective than placebo, and experts have criticized the trial design as having a lack of sufficient sensitivity.

A phase I study of synthetic hypericin for the treatment of HIV infection was reported in 1999; the study failed to demonstrate anti-retroviral activity or positive changes in CD4+ counts, and further clinical trials were halted.[2480] Oral synthetic hypericin is being investigated as a treatment for glioblastoma. Initial phase II studies in glioblastoma were completed by Nexell (formerly VIMRx, Inc.) in 1998 under the name "VIMRxyn®", but it is uncertain if further phase II and III trials are planned. St. John's wort has been used historically for insomnia and has been applied topically after maceration to promote healing of minor burns or wounds. Because of its photodynamic activity, topical application of synthetic hypericin (topical VimRxyn®) in combination with light therapy is being investigated for the treatment of psoriasis, cutaneous T-cell lymphoma, and verruca vulgaris.

Mechanism of Action: There is much debate over the exact mechanism of action of St. John's wort, particularly in the treatment of depression. Hypericin, one of the active ingredients, is used as a marker for standardization of processing. Other naphthodianthrones (e.g., pseudohypericin), the flavonoids (e.g., quercetin), and hyperforin are thought to be needed in combination with hypericin for antidepressant clinical effects. Recent trials in Germany are focusing on hyperforin, which is found primarily in the stamens and other reproductive parts of the plant, as a major contributor to antidepressant activity. It is postulated that the final activity of St. John's wort is the result of cumulative actions on a variety of neurotransmitters and steroid hormones.

•Neuropharmacology: Although it is not possible at this time to identify with certainty the active antidepressant principle(s) in St. John's wort, clinically, an antidepressant effect has been documented.[1698] [1699]

Animal data indicate that hypericum extract (LI 160™) can inhibit serotonin uptake by postsynaptic receptors.[1697] Serotonin receptors are down-regulated in this process, leading to increased serotonin levels. The effects of St. John's wort on serotonin are similar to, but less potent than, the SSRI class of antidepressants. Hypericum has also been reported to increase synaptic dopamine concentrations, possibly through inhibition of dopamine-beta-hydroxylase.[1697] Hyperforin, a component of hypericum extract, enhances the extracellular levels of dopamine, norepinephrine, and the excitatory amino acid glutamate, probably as a consequence of neuronal uptake inhibition.

Quercetin and xanthones contained in the leaves and roots of the St. John's wort plant have been shown to inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO) in rat brain in vitro studies. Hypericin does not have any significant inhibition of MAO types A and B in the human nervous system when administered at recommended clinical dosages. MAO inhibition alone appears to be an insufficient explanation of antidepressant effects of St. John's wort.[1697] The relative MAO inhibitory action of St. John's wort is currently thought to be less significant than that which occurs with commonly prescribed MAOIs (e.g., isocarboxazid, phenelzine, tranylcypromine).[1698]

Active ingredients such as xanthone, quercetin, and rutoside have weak inhibitory actions on catechol-O-methyl transferase (COMT). However, there is no evidence at this time that COMT-inhibition is a significant contributor to the activity of St. John's wort.[1697]

St. John's wort may increase the nighttime production of melatonin. Relaxant effects seen on EEG are similar to the tricyclic antidepressants.[1697] Other actions of St. John's wort include weak affinity for NMDA receptors and GABA receptors in vitro.

St. John's wort may exhibit peripheral pharmacologic effects. Via inhibitory actions on cytokines (e.g., interleukin-6), St. John's wort may help regulate cortisol production and release, which may contribute to antidepressant activity.[1697]

•Phototoxic and Cytotoxic actions: Human keratinocytes treated with St. John's wort exhibit photodynamic effects similar to psoralen when exposed to UV light. Clinical phototoxicity results in adverse drug reactions such as sunburn, rashes, and dysesthesia. These actions have led to the investigation of synthetic hypericin in combination with light for the therapy of various pathologic skin conditions.

Hypericin is an inhibitor of cellular protein kinase C activity, and may exhibit anti-angiogenic activity. The activity of hypericin in vitro against glioma cells exposed to light has led to the clinical investigation of the action of oral synthetic hypericin against glioma-cell migration. Clinically, effects against glioblastoma have been observed in vivo.

•Antiviral and Antibacterial Actions: Antiviral effects of hypericin and pseudohypericin have been demonstrated in mice. Specific viruses that are inhibited in murine models include: herpes simplex 1 and 2, cytomegalovirus (CMV), hepatitis C virus, influenza virus, and poliovirus. Inhibition of bovine immunodeficiency virus via inhibition of reverse transcriptase in vitro lead to research in HIV infection; however, trials have been terminated due to lack of clinical benefit in initial human studies.[2480] A preliminary study in humans failed to show activity against hepatitis C. In vitro studies of viral-infected human blood have failed to show significant anti-viral activity. There is no evidence of efficacy of St. John's wort in any human viral illness at this time. While hyperforin appears to inhibit S. aureus in vitro, antibacterial activity in vivo is uncertain.

Other actions: Other minor pharmacologic actions of St. John's wort include mild estrogenic activity. St. John's wort has induced contractions of animal uterine muscle tissue in vitro. St. John's wort may suppress the production of arachodonic acid and leukotrienes, leading to decreased inflammation and white blood cell infiltration. In addition, there may be some stimulation of cellular and humoral immunity. These actions may explain the use of St. John's wort as a historical treatment for burns and minor skin wounds.

Pharmacokinetics: Most commonly, when used to lift the mood, the herb is taken orally as a tea made from the leaves, or as an extract in tablet or capsule form. Potency of St. John's wort preparations, expressed as percentage of hypericin, can vary substantially from manufacturer to manufacturer. In one analysis of commercial extracts, 50% of products tested contained less than 80% of the hypericin content stated on the label, and 30% of brands tested contained less than 50% of their stated hypericin content.[1698] Some clinicians note that only one commercial extract, known as LI 160™, has been associated with clinical effectiveness in controlled trials.

Single and multiple dose pharmacokinetic studies of the LI 160™ extract of St. John's wort have been performed. The different components of the herb may have different pharmacokinetic parameters, but these are not well understood. Via the oral route, hypericin appears to be maximally absorbed in 2 hours, whereas pseudohypericin is absorbed in 0.5—1 hour. Both hypericin and pseudohypericin appear to have non-linear increases in AUC with increasing oral dosage; the effect is most pronounced for hypericin. Steady state plasma concentrations are reached after 4 days of continued dosing of LI 160™ 300 mg three times per day. Hypericin does cross the blood-brain barrier. Elimination half-life ranges 16—36 hours in single dose studies, but the route of elimination of St. John's wort or its components has not been delineated.[2060] As with all antidepressants, several weeks of therapy are required to reach full effectiveness.

References

1697. Bennett DA, Phun L, Polk JF, et al. Neuropharmacology of St. John's wort (Hypericum). Ann Pharmacother 1998;32:1201—8.
1698. Gaster B, Holroyd J. St. John's wort for depression-a systematic review. Arch Intern Med 2000;160:152—56.

1699. Linde K, Ramirez G, Mulrow CD et al. St. John's wort for depression: an overview and meta-analysis of randomised clinical trials. Br Med J 1996;313:253—8.

2060. Staffeldt B, Kerb R, Brockmoller J, et al. Pharmacokinetics of hypericin and pseudohypericin after oral intake of the hypericum perforatum extract LI 160 in healthy volunteers. J Geriatr Psychiatry Neurol 1994;7(Suppl 1):S47—53.

2480. Gulick RM, McAuliffe V, Holden-Wiltse, et al. Phase I studies of Hypericin, the active compund in St. John's wort, as an antiretroviral agent in HIV-infected adults. Ann Intern Med 1999;130:510—14.

3573. Hypericum Depression Trial Group. Effect of Hypericum perforatum (St. John's wort) in major depressive disorder: A randomized controlled trial. JAMA 2002;287:1807—14.



[ Revised 10/24/2006 4:18:00 PM ]

[SemiBizz]

Doctors are drug pushers...the pharma sector detail men push the drugs to the doctors, the doctors distribute them freely...

http://www.drugabuse...escription.html

The nonmedical use or abuse of prescription drugs is a serious and growing public health problem in this country. The elderly are among those most vulnerable to prescription drug abuse or misuse because they are prescribed more medications than their younger counterparts. Most people take prescription medications responsibly; however, an estimated 48 million people (ages 12 and older) have used prescription drugs for nonmedical reasons in their lifetimes. This represents approximately 20 percent of the U.S. population

Also alarming is the fact that the 2004 National Institute on Drug Abuse's (NIDA's) Monitoring the Future survey of 8th, 10th, and 12th-graders found that 9.3 percent of 12th-graders reported using Vicodin without a prescription in the past year, and 5.0 percent reported using OxyContin-making these medications among the most commonly abused prescription drugs by adolescents

That's because these drugs are over-prescribed to adults. Then there's antibiotics, commonly prescribed to cold and flu patients erroneously to make the patient feel as if the Doctor is doing something to help...

[maineman]

Thank you for pointing out how awful I am. Lucky for us, however, "people" are completely stupid. That's why we are able to offload all those drugs for the drug companies. Now if I could only figure out a way to make money from that! Seems unfair that only the drug companies get to make all the money. And the drug stores, too. But lucky for the drug makers and drug reps people are complete idiots and the doctors are complete idiots so they can push thier useless and toxic drugs. It's a good thing the drugs aren't TOO toxic, though. That way all the idiots keep going back for refills. There are really just 2 types of idiots out there. Some are the idiots who trust doctors to diagnose and treat. What a bunch of morons. Don't they know they are just getting drugs pushed on them by flunkie drug reps, using brain dead doctors as a front? The second type of idiots are the rest who "know better" and won't go to the doctors. Instead, they buy all the completely responsible herbs, vitamins, minerals, and voodoo potions. Instead of moron/pawn doctors and conniving drug reps, they use the completely honest Health Food Stores and Vitamin Shoppes. And then they "die healthy". This second group of idiots is, of course, fully aware that the same drug companies manufacture and package all the items for idiot group one and idiot group 2. Well, thanks for your insights. I've had an attack of conscience. As a result, I have taken the following steps: I've fired myself from practice. I've surrended my medical license. I've given back all the diagnoses I've made and surrended all my patient charts back to my patients. I've told all my heart failure, cancer, rheumatoid, lyme, diabetic, migraine, depressed, anginal, Waldenstrom's, anemic, etc. patients that I was wrong, and they should stop being babies and stooges. I've told them to "buck up" and look around for some vitamins and herbs. They could start by just asking thier friends and neighbors to tell them what worked for them, and stop being such whiners and stop wasting thier time at the doctor's office. And I've taken a vow of silence and joined an eastern sect who believes that man is nothing more than a speck of dust on the lining of the colon of a great cosmic snail. mm

[SemiBizz]

Well MM, it is what it is. You don't show much respect for homeopathy. So no-respect goes both ways. You seem to be waging a war. I guess that's part of being a pro-AMA advocate. Go out and find chat boards to pooh-pooh alternative medicine. You sure found some resistance here though. Frankly, I think M.D.s CREATE more problems with drugs than they solve.

[maineman]

Well MM, it is what it is. You don't show much respect for homeopathy. So no-respect goes both ways.



You seem to be waging a war. I guess that's part of being a pro-AMA advocate. Go out and find chat boards to pooh-pooh alternative medicine. You sure found some resistance here though. Frankly, I think M.D.s CREATE more problems with drugs than they solve.

1. "Respect" as you imply has nothing to do with it. I am a scientist. If something is valid, I use it to help people with thier health. Plain and simple. Drugs, surgery, heating pads, herbs, whatever. We test it. We re-test it. We prove it or disprove it.

2. I am waging no war. I put up all kinds of interesting facts and items. I back up anything I say with reliable sources. When, on occassion, there is something that goes against someone's "faith-based" system, I'm the one who gets yelled at. I never yell or accuse.

3. I am not an "AMA advocate". I don't belong to the AMA. FWIW, there is no great "AMA" driven conspiracy out there. (I've addressed this before here. Look it up). The AMA is simply a professional organization, like the American Bar Assn. or the Association of American Home Builders, or AARP, etc. Take a look sometime at what they do. It's pretty boring stuff. Like, seeing to it that children get proper care and vaccines. That hospitals are regulated and clean, and non-discriminatory, etc.

4. Finally, the use of "drugs" is a very, very small part of what we do. And a blanket statement like yours is meaningless. Sorry you are so angry about all of this. You know, stress is bad for your health.

mm