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The big assumption


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#1 kaiser soze

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 03:15 PM

Here are some clues. You detectives theorize what they might mean.

Fact one: Fed Chair has talked like an inflation hawk for months and months now, and acted like one too.

Fact two: The RE slowdown has been well advertised for nearly 2 years now.

Fact three: The sub-prime problem has been well understood by bankers and the Fed for some time now.

Fact four: There has been an explosion of short and leveraged ETF's coming to market and becoming established over the past two years.

Fact five: The Uptick rule has been eliminated--a huge change to the dynamics of our stock market with little or no public debate.

Fact six: The stock market has entered a sharp and dramatic correction.

How might all these facts relate to each other?


Let me give it a shot with a bit of conspiracy theory thrown in.

Every single one of you ( and me too until recently) is making ONE big assumption. That the powers that be have a lot to lose if the fiasco turns out exactly the way market forces will force it to turn out.

Lets reverse that around. Is there a way the powers that be could actually gain if an economic depression came to pass ?

Yes, there is. The powers that be are growth investors. They want to make sure that money works for them over the long run rather than working for money (to use a Kiyosaki-ism). Considering the lavish lifestyles the American nouveau riche has become accustomed to, that can only continue if their assets grow way faster than their expenditures.

Where is the growth today ? Brazil, Russia, India and China for starters. Definitely not the United States.
When the depression comes to pass, BRICs, who directly or indirectly feed the American consumer will experience acute pain in the short run. But the BRICS have set the basic processes and infrastructure in motion so that they will come back and grow on the strength of their own consumer demand even if there is an extended depression in between.

But meanwhile, the super-rich Americans (& Europeans) will buy up assets wholesale in the BRIC countries at bargain basement prices so as to secure their growth vehicles for decades to come.

The most direct analogy would be the role of the British aristocracy before, during and after the Great Depression. Britain in the early and mid 1900s was the global hegemon. Few people know this but the direct catalyst for the crash beginning in Sep'29 was the Bank of England raising interest rates in an already fragile economic sphere. Sure enough, the British aristocracy mopped a lot of cheap assets around the world but especially in the US. This enabled them to keep their castles, play polo and take expensive vacations (even after the devastation of WW II) while Britain itself was relegated to a third rate power, the middle class shrank and a static immobile underclass emerged.

#2 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 05:49 PM

I was thinking a bit nearer term, and I'll say that I DON'T think that BoE raised rate as part of a plan. It was a mistake due to utter monetary ignorance. But that's another matter. Here's one conclusion. The market is down because the Fed wants it down and there are assuredly lots and lots of folks short. This means that less REAL damage is being done than in earlier declines. There's also a safety floor, I'll warrant. I'm going to say that the Fed is engineering a fix for at least some of the problems and their building cover. I don't know about this Fed day, but the next one will beget some cutting, I'm pretty sure. Unless suddenly good news starts coming. One thing I am curious about, however, is whether or not they can really get mortgage rates to drop much. I note that despite a 50 bp drop in the long bond, the 30year mtg is about unchanged or only down about 8 bp. That'll be tricky. M

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#3 beta

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 05:58 PM

Same thing happened in the IMF crisis, late 90's. Banks, hotels, prime RE, golf courses and even public utilities were marked down to firesale prices as sellers desperately tried to raise cash to meet obligations on overleveraged balance sheets (and falling currencies). Eventually, big private equity firms like Newbridge Capital and Morgan Stanley stepped in right at the bottom and bought assets for pennies on the dollar. Made 10X + on their investments.

Edited by beta, 05 August 2007 - 06:07 PM.

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#4 VolPivots

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 11:14 PM

So my question then is, when do the powers that be put a halt to or eliminate the short uptick rule? Sometime next year well ahead of the elections? :P

#5 arbman

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 01:09 AM

The market is down because the Fed wants it down


Mark, Fed bailed out a lot of bad loans last week, nobody even noticed, the secondary market shows day after day borrowings in the billions. They've been rescueing since last month, the borrowings are absolutely in the record amounts of the past several years.

If the Fed really wanted the market down, the USD would be already going up substantially, I think the market retreated on the news, but the sub-prime contingency was already worked out for the most part and they dumped the worst loans on the investors. BSC was basically left out and that's why their president is going, he just could not pull together a deal with the Fed, few others did...

If the market goes up from here, nobody will ask any questions, the prime loans are safe as long as the business environment stays strong...

- kisa

Edited by kisacik, 06 August 2007 - 01:09 AM.


#6 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 06:45 AM

Kisa, they want it down, but they don't want it down on true, serious selling. They want it down on shorts piling on. Thanks to no-uptick short they've got it. M

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#7 arbman

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 06:55 AM

Yes, I think this is their only option, this is the only collateral they've got to inflate against. God forbid, if everyone turns bullish, they are doomed...