41 replies to this topic

[CallMeIshmael]

I have to disagree about the wage complaints. Profits were not passed down to the average worker in decent
raises, I'm talking 4-6% per yr raises are what people should have been getting for the last 15 yrs, but the corp execs
kept it all, recent report out that exec pay has trippled vs 40% for the average worker, I forget how long a period,
but when times are down execs will not part with any of their bonuses. I've been getting 2-3% raises for
the last 15 years, barely enough to keep up with inflation.

Since you're posting to a business oriented board I assume you know something about business. Businesses are not charities. Just like you they pay only what they have to pay for everything, labor included. You do the same thing when you shop. Do you feel guilty when you get a bargain? When the economy improves businesses will hire, workers will become scarcer and pay will have to go up. That's the way it works.

[cycletimer]

I have to disagree about the wage complaints. Profits were not passed down to the average worker in decent
raises, I'm talking 4-6% per yr raises are what people should have been getting for the last 15 yrs, but the corp execs
kept it all, recent report out that exec pay has trippled vs 40% for the average worker, I forget how long a period,
but when times are down execs will not part with any of their bonuses. I've been getting 2-3% raises for
the last 15 years, barely enough to keep up with inflation.

Inflation has been more on average about 5% a year, with close to 7% over the last year.... The difference is killing many families..... Although overall inflation remain somewhat low... Education, Food, Gas are very high......


Barry

I have been in SALES my entire career. Sure I get a base/draw + commission but its commission and bonuses I am after. I eat what I hunt and kill. The sky is the limit in sales careers. The more I have busted my arse the more $ I have made, six figures every year since 1998. Is there anything wrong with that? Why am I a sinner because I work long and hard and I am justly rewarded by my performance. I pay tithe, I pay taxes and I feel I pay my fair share.
My best friend has been a commercial airline pilot for a decade and he made more $ his first year than he does today. He has suffered one pay cut after another, worked more overtime flights to get by and he doesn't complain. He feels blessed to have a job that he loves.
Screw those lazy bums who are protesting. They haven't a clue what hard work is.

[CLK]

I have to disagree about the wage complaints. Profits were not passed down to the average worker in decent
raises, I'm talking 4-6% per yr raises are what people should have been getting for the last 15 yrs, but the corp execs
kept it all, recent report out that exec pay has trippled vs 40% for the average worker, I forget how long a period,
but when times are down execs will not part with any of their bonuses. I've been getting 2-3% raises for
the last 15 years, barely enough to keep up with inflation.

Inflation has been more on average about 5% a year, with close to 7% over the last year.... The difference is killing many families..... Although overall inflation remain somewhat low... Education, Food, Gas are very high......


Barry

I have been in SALES my entire career. Sure I get a base/draw + commission but its commission and bonuses I am after. I eat what I hunt and kill. The sky is the limit in sales careers. The more I have busted my arse the more $ I have made, six figures every year since 1998. Is there anything wrong with that? Why am I a sinner because I work long and hard and I am justly rewarded by my performance. I pay tithe, I pay taxes and I feel I pay my fair share.
My best friend has been a commercial airline pilot for a decade and he made more $ his first year than he does today. He has suffered one pay cut after another, worked more overtime flights to get by and he doesn't complain. He feels blessed to have a job that he loves.
Screw those lazy bums who are protesting. They haven't a clue what hard work is.

All jobs are not the same, you make it in sales you earned it. I'm talking about service type production work for big corporations.

And for CMI above, I agree that when workers get scarce the pay goes up but ONLY to get new hires in the door, current workers will not get
a dime extra in raises.

[James Quillian]

I keep saying this. The protesters have no representation in congress and neither do you. Laws are constantly being passed over your loud objections and theirs also. That is the problem. I doesn't matter who is protesting or what they think.

[Rogerdodger]

Amen James.

Robin Hood did not steal from producers of wealth, otherwise he would have been forgotten as just one more parasite on society.
But rather he is remembered as a warrior for justice.
He stole from those who greedily enriched themselves through oppressive taxation of the producers, and returned the wealth to those producers.
A bit of justice and righteousness, although unlawful in the view of 1%.

It seems to me that there are overtaxed producers today as well as greedy, envious looters and moochers.
(Remember that part of that "over-taxation" includes the devaluation of paper money through government policy.)

As one author put it:
"Looters" are proponents of high taxation, big labor, government ownership, government spending, government planning, regulation, and redistribution.
"Looters" confiscate others' earnings by force, (think Sheriff of Nottingham,) and include government officials, whose demands are backed by the implicit threat of force. Some officials are merely executing government policy, such as those who confiscate one state's seed grain to feed the starving citizens of another; others are exploiting those policies, such as the solar panel investor who has his own profit guaranteed by government friends while sharing the spoils with those political friends. Both use force to take property from the people who produced or earned it.

Looters make up much of the "1%" as they have enriched themselves through government policy rather than actual productivity.

"Moochers" demand others' earnings on behalf of the needy and those unable to earn themselves; however, they curse the producers who make that help possible and are jealous and resentful of the talented on whom they depend. They are ultimately as destructive as the looters – destroying the productive through guilt, and appealing to "moral right" while enabling the "lawful" looting performed by governments.
Note that public unions and groups such as the defunct ACORN are behind current protests, demanding other people's money.
(Recently a friend told me: "Everything I have, I got from the government: my home, my health care, my education, my food." She forgot to thank ME! She probably doesn't even realize that in reality I'm the one paying for her goodies.)

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?... Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or the looters who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? ... Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into bread you need to survive tomorrow. ... Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave its owners a counterfeit pile of paper.

It is not money but the "love of money" which is the root of evil.
Envy is the passive-aggressive sister of greed and most often displayed by those wanting to get other people's stuff without paying for it or "giving value for value."
So who are really the greedy?

And when will Government and University officials see protests?
Maybe most of the so called "99%" are really their friends...

Edited by Rogerdodger, 30 October 2011 - 10:53 PM.

[Cirrus]

Robin Hood stole, not from the rich but from those who greedly enriched themselves through high taxation and found support among envious, greedy moochers who shared in the spoils of high taxation of the producers.

It seems to me that there are producers, looters and moochers in society today.

As one author put it:
"Looters" are proponents of high taxation, big labor, government ownership, government spending, government planning, regulation, and redistribution.
"Looters" confiscate others' earnings by force ("at the point of a gun") and include government officials, whose demands are backed by the implicit threat of force. Some officials are merely executing government policy, such as those who confiscate one state's seed grain to feed the starving citizens of another; others are exploiting those policies, such as the railroad regulator who illegally sells the railroad's supplies for his own profit. Both use force to take property from the people who produced or earned it.

"Moochers" demand others' earnings on behalf of the needy and those unable to earn themselves; however, they curse the producers who make that help possible and are jealous and resentful of the talented on whom they depend. They are ultimately as destructive as the looters – destroying the productive through guilt, and appealing to "moral right" while enabling the "lawful" looting performed by governments.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?... Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or the looters who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil? ... Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into bread you need to survive tomorrow. ... Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave its owners a counterfeit pile of paper.

It is not money but the "love of money" which is the root of evil.
Envy is the passive-aggressive sister of greed.

Great post...sounds likek Ayn Rand...am I right?

[CallMeIshmael]

I have to disagree about the wage complaints. Profits were not passed down to the average worker in decent
raises, I'm talking 4-6% per yr raises are what people should have been getting for the last 15 yrs, but the corp execs
kept it all, recent report out that exec pay has trippled vs 40% for the average worker, I forget how long a period,
but when times are down execs will not part with any of their bonuses. I've been getting 2-3% raises for
the last 15 years, barely enough to keep up with inflation.

Inflation has been more on average about 5% a year, with close to 7% over the last year.... The difference is killing many families..... Although overall inflation remain somewhat low... Education, Food, Gas are very high......


Barry

I have been in SALES my entire career. Sure I get a base/draw + commission but its commission and bonuses I am after. I eat what I hunt and kill. The sky is the limit in sales careers. The more I have busted my arse the more $ I have made, six figures every year since 1998. Is there anything wrong with that? Why am I a sinner because I work long and hard and I am justly rewarded by my performance. I pay tithe, I pay taxes and I feel I pay my fair share.
My best friend has been a commercial airline pilot for a decade and he made more $ his first year than he does today. He has suffered one pay cut after another, worked more overtime flights to get by and he doesn't complain. He feels blessed to have a job that he loves.
Screw those lazy bums who are protesting. They haven't a clue what hard work is.

All jobs are not the same, you make it in sales you earned it. I'm talking about service type production work for big corporations.

And for CMI above, I agree that when workers get scarce the pay goes up but ONLY to get new hires in the door, current workers will not get a dime extra in raises.

Of course they will, if they have the gumption to ask. If I have an employee whom I have known and valued for years and he comes to me and says he's been offered more money to go elsewhere, do you think I'd let him walk and hire an unknown whom I'd probably have to pay near as much? That's bad business. Every good business man knows not to be underbid on sales nor overbid on skilled labor.

Edited by CallMeIshmael, 30 October 2011 - 09:50 PM.

[James Quillian]

It seems to me that there are producers, looters and moochers in society today.

It is important to note that government is used facilitate each of those activities.

[pdx5]

Since you're posting to a business oriented board I assume you know something about business. Businesses are not charities. Just like you they pay only what they have to pay for everything, labor included. You do the same thing when you shop. Do you feel guilty when you get a bargain? When the economy improves businesses will hire, workers will become scarcer and pay will have to go up. That's the way it works.

I always thought you were a wise man. Now it has been confirmed. Thanks for writing the hard truth.

In my own experience, I have lived in this "capitalist" country, and grew up in a socialist country.
For all it's fault in capitalism, I would never ever go back to live in a socialist country.

[Rogerdodger]

Great post...sounds like Ayn Rand...am I right?

Maybe a bit of Rand, a bit of common sense based on experience, and maybe a bit of Rogerdodger.

It is important to note that government is used facilitate each of those activities.

And so I ask why are the protests not directed at government...?
The same government that forced bankers to give mortgages to moochers with bad credit...
The same government that gave $500,000,000+ to a friendly solar panel "investor" who pays ZERO TAXES! (See Avatar)...
The same government that gave $500,000,000+ loan guarantee to build vehicles... in Finland...

Maybe the so called "99%" protesters really support the Sheriff of Nottingham and not Robin...

Edited by Rogerdodger, 30 October 2011 - 11:10 PM.