35 replies to this topic

[pcp]

Having lived in this country for a few years, it is apparent that Americans are willing to live by the sword but not die by it. I expect congress to outlaw failure altogether pretty soon and then they will legislate prosperity and laugh at the rest of the world for buying into the capitalism crap they were spewing all these years. I say the alternative is for the markets to correct on their own. There is no such thing as an asset that won't sell. The banks just don't like the prices. Tough [bleeeep]. Eat your losses or die of starvation. That's the alternative.

[milbank]

One thing that should be understood is that all those in that room, representatives of the President, the SEC, the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, the Banking and Finance committees of both houses of congress, were sanctioned by their benefactors who put them there to feed the pig, nurture the pig and make it grow as big as possible. It grew so big it blew up and splattered all over the planet. They are desperate now that they have found that trying to put lipstick on it doesn't make the splattered pig whole again.

[James Quillian]

Milbank
There is no point in my coming up with arguments as to why the bailout is not a good idea. Those arguments are pretty common around here. I am not likely the come up with a thought that most traders haven't already entertained.
It is just amazing to me that there is this much agreement among lawmakers so fast.
Even if the idea that the problems will work themselves out best without intervention is truly idiotic, odds favor that at least one lawmaker would express that view.

So far the panic has been much greater than the crash. So far this has been a pretty mild bear market as far as bear markets go. I wouldn't expect this much concern over a situation by lawmakers without people lying sidewalks bleeding.

James

I'm all eyes James. What is "the other side of the issue." What is the alternative to the "essence of this plan" that cannot be spoken for fear of death?

I would guess that others might argue something like this.......

"Mr. Paulson, I think that the damage being done by government intervention in the financial markets will outweigh the short term benefits of a bailout."

Or, "Mr. Paulson, my understanding of free market economics is that suffering the consequences of poor decisions is an essential ingredient, to a strong economy. I think it is best that the government remain on the sidelines. My vote is no! A bailout would hurt my constituents."

Or, "Mr. Paulson, in my recollection there has never been a Treasurary Secretary who has assumed the kind of duties you are now perfoming. Sorry, but I don't trust your motives. I would rather put my faith in market generate outcomes. Thank you, but I am voting no."

I would guess that at least one or two comments along those lines would bubble to the surface.

James

We don't know they or other ideas weren't brought up. The three "arguments" you make have no back up as to why they are realistic solutions (even though they may be valid on principle), as opposed to the one proposed by Paulson.

I would not characterize your three as alternatives that one would be killed for making. I doubt seriously you'd get anywhere near a majority behind any of those three.

It was Paulson's job to convince those congressmen in the meeting as to why this had to be the way. Call me naive but, I assume questions were asked. Numbers including debits versus assets were itemized. There are details that are not agreed on by all and will take days to work out.

[Rogerdodger]

Even if the idea that the problems will work themselves out best without intervention is truly idiotic, odds favor that at least one lawmaker would express that view.

I thought I saw a few lawmakers on the news tonight who are opposed.
They are in the minority.

[bullshort]

Here is an interesting article written a little over a year ago by Fleckenstein. Closest I've come to finding the Japanese comparison:

http://articles.mone...guidedPath.aspx

[arbman]

They were shown the charts, they were shown the stats, the dire condition we are in, the failure of one investment bank after another, the ultimate cost to the taxpayers if they are not bailed out right now! Just sign here, and here and here, and here, wait a minute! What is this? Oh that's nothing, it is just a compensation for a few friends and family...

[blackcloud]

Have any of you guys read "Empire Of Debt" by William Bonner? I think it's time for me to find it and read it again.

[pcp]

Have any of you guys read "Empire Of Debt" by William Bonner? I think it's time for me to find it and read it again.

Why bother reading it? You are watching the live action version.

[gm_general]

“Since i entered politics, I have chiefly had men’s views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” “I have unwillingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by it’s system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the most ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated government in the world. . .no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of a majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.” Woodrow Wilson

[Warren]

All of this is just so surreal. Just like watching a slow motion disaster unfold. All of these leaders are public officials and every statement they have made is as thoroughly documented by every kind of media there is. They have not been right yet on anything they have told us. So I would have to say that they are : A. Lying B. Some of the most incompetent people in the world C. Both or D. If only we knew what they knew we would understand why they are doing everything they are doing (but we are not smart enough to understand so why bother trying to tell us) but then they would have to kill us.