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All The Same Market


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#1 CallMeIshmael

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:20 PM

In recent replies to other members I have described my feeling that this rally (bull trap) is part of the ongoing liquidity bubble perpetrated by the FED and that the bubble won't burst until the FED pulls in its horns. The following was published yesterday in Club EWI. I thinks it describes this phenomenon better than I have so far.

"AND I ONLY AM ESCAPED ALONE TO TELL THEE" - Job.
CallMeIshmael

Everything Rises and Falls Together in All the Same Markets Index

By Susan C. Walker
Fri, 24 Jul 2009

Many investors and their financial managers have come to the same shocking conclusion over the past year: that the tried-and-true method of spreading assets around in different markets to avoid risk no longer works. A story in the July 10 edition of The Wall Street Journal amusingly quoted one financial advisor who stood before a group of his peers and said, "Hi. My name is Carl, and I'm a recovering asset-allocationist."

The story goes on to say that "asset allocation, a bedrock of investing for decades, appeared to fail miserably in 2008. The conviction shared by most investors -- that they should spread their money across myriad asset classes to minimize losses -- was shaken as nearly all markets tumbled in unison."

The truth may have dawned slowly for some, but Bob Prechter started writing in 2002 about how all financial markets were trending together, thanks to the bubble created by too much credit. Later, one of his subscribers suggested that he put together an index. He did, and published it in 2007. In these two excerpts and chart, Bob explains why All the Same Markets is such an important concept. After all, it explains why so many people have taken hits to their investments, no matter how wide they have spread them.
* * * * *
Excerpted from Elliott Wave Theorist, December 2007

We at Elliott Wave International invented the phrase “All the Same Market” to refer to the coordinated trends in diverse financial markets that we saw emerging in 2002. … Our new index, the All the Same Markets Index, or ASMI, comprises the following eight markets:
S&P 500
Nasdaq Composite index
Gold
Crude oil (Bloomberg West Texas Intermediate (WTI) Cushing)
CRB All Commodities index
Real Estate (US Census Bureau median sales price for new, privately-owned, single-family residential structures)
U.S. 10-year note (generic first future price)
US$ Index, inverted

… Strikingly, this index has not meandered around but marched up and down in distinct trends. Given this noticeable order, we think our index tracks something singular and real, namely the exceedingly rare orientation of the financial marketplace in which the market treats all investments not as competing, somewhat exclusive options but rather as part of a vast array of available items on a smorgasbord where investors can graze among the offerings, blithely paying for them all with the massive amount of credit made available by the banking system….

Why is the ASMI important? To quote the former chairman of Citigroup (from last July), “When the music stops, in terms of liquidity, things will be complicated.” Well, this index will tell us when the music has stopped. As long as the uptrend from 2002 remains intact, the magic levitation will continue. But when the biggest credit-fueled investment mania of all time terminates, this index will tell us so by breaking its lower trendline. At that point, it will indicate that the deflationary crash—the unwinding of the great credit bubble—is finally under way.

Posted Image
Excerpted from Elliott Wave Theorist, June 2009

The Partial Recovery is Already Maturing

Late February-early March was a great time to step aside from our bearish opinion. The outlook for a rally that would be “sharp and scary for anyone who is short” has pretty well come to pass. Our “All the Same Market” theme has ruled the entire time. In just three months, the S&P has leaped over 40 percent, the dollar has plunged 13 percent, gold, silver, oil and the CRB index of commodities have all rallied, real estate deals have picked up, and the economy is showing signs of recovery. Our prediction for a temporary turn toward optimism meant a rise in the availability of credit, which has fueled all these trends and events. These outcomes are just as one would expect from a turn toward optimism in a deflationary environment where the ebb and flow of liquidity is the financial tail on the social-mood dog.

It has been breathtaking to watch the swift return to all the old false beliefs: the bull market is back; inflation is the main threat; we are running out of oil; real estate is a bargain; and the economy is setting up to boom. We explicitly forecast that investors and economists would return to optimistic views, and it has happened. This is the power of a Primary degree second wave. It shows up in the rally in our All-the-Same-Markets Index (ASMI), as shown in the chart above.

Edited by CallMeIshmael, 25 July 2009 - 06:25 PM.


#2 Not Too Swift

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:59 PM

Great post.

Jim Rogers says we are in store for a commodities bull with the returning inflation.

Cheif says we will have an inflationary bull market.

On the other side, Van Hoisington says we will have deflation:
http://www.hoisingto...HIM2009Q2NP.pdf

And Prechter above says we will have deflation with sharp blips up.

Amazing that the question is still open.
I let the market tell me what to do. The trouble is she mumbles a lot, and I'm hard of hearing.

1576 ONO. Upside down, reverse, inside out, snort...

#3 CallMeIshmael

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:24 PM

Great post.

Jim Rogers says we are in store for a commodities bull with the returning inflation.

Cheif says we will have an inflationary bull market.

On the other side, Van Hoisington says we will have deflation:
http://www.hoisingto...HIM2009Q2NP.pdf

And Prechter above says we will have deflation with sharp blips up.

Amazing that the question is still open.

Not open. We are in the maelstrom of a credit bubble implosion. You don't get inflation out of that. Case closed.

#4 da_cheif

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:31 PM

Great post.

Jim Rogers says we are in store for a commodities bull with the returning inflation.

Cheif says we will have an inflationary bull market.

On the other side, Van Hoisington says we will have deflation:
http://www.hoisingto...HIM2009Q2NP.pdf

And Prechter above says we will have deflation with sharp blips up.

Amazing that the question is still open.


who you gonna trust.....prechter???? where the word bull market has not been on his mind for 22 years......and van hoisington who hasnt ever had a clew about the stock market......????

#5 da_cheif

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:32 PM

Great post.

Jim Rogers says we are in store for a commodities bull with the returning inflation.

Cheif says we will have an inflationary bull market.

On the other side, Van Hoisington says we will have deflation:
http://www.hoisingto...HIM2009Q2NP.pdf

And Prechter above says we will have deflation with sharp blips up.

Amazing that the question is still open.

Not open. We are in the maelstrom of a credit bubble implosion. You don't get inflation out of that. Case closed.



so CMI......how long u been a student of the stock market????

#6 Not Too Swift

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:41 PM

Great post.

Jim Rogers says we are in store for a commodities bull with the returning inflation.

Cheif says we will have an inflationary bull market.

On the other side, Van Hoisington says we will have deflation:
http://www.hoisingto...HIM2009Q2NP.pdf

And Prechter above says we will have deflation with sharp blips up.

Amazing that the question is still open.

Not open. We are in the maelstrom of a credit bubble implosion. You don't get inflation out of that. Case closed.



so CMI......how long u been a student of the stock market????


It is not a fair question, Cheif.

Nobody is going to defer to a trader because he / she is the oldest.
I let the market tell me what to do. The trouble is she mumbles a lot, and I'm hard of hearing.

1576 ONO. Upside down, reverse, inside out, snort...

#7 Not Too Swift

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:43 PM

Great post.

Jim Rogers says we are in store for a commodities bull with the returning inflation.

Cheif says we will have an inflationary bull market.

On the other side, Van Hoisington says we will have deflation:
http://www.hoisingto...HIM2009Q2NP.pdf

And Prechter above says we will have deflation with sharp blips up.

Amazing that the question is still open.

Not open. We are in the maelstrom of a credit bubble implosion. You don't get inflation out of that. Case closed.


My only quibble is that Mr. Bernanke said he is willing to drop money from helicopters. And he has made a pretty good down payment on that.

It could backfire and give us the worst of both worlds.
I let the market tell me what to do. The trouble is she mumbles a lot, and I'm hard of hearing.

1576 ONO. Upside down, reverse, inside out, snort...

#8 n83

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:43 PM

of course (I for one) do not trust prechter (do not subscribe to any anyway)

but then..the bond and credit mkts have to be ignored?

so apparently everything is created by specialists etc..in that case one entity has to be making money all the time..

is that some fuzzy entity called 'da boyz' ? (even GS loses)..the mysterious 'THEY' take it up and THEY take it down?

and the drop from 14k to 6k? that was just 'created' or fabricated ? see what ignoring the credit markets gave some..

nevermind..time moves on..plenty of time for more prognostications (upside and downside)

something will 'work' eventually

lol

#9 CallMeIshmael

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:53 PM

so CMI......how long u been a student of the stock market????

Oh, about a quarter century or so, maybe a little longer. Look, Precter's chart is just an illustration. What I'm talking about is basic Austrian economics. We have been in an inflationary spiral this past 75 years. Now it's unravelling. No matter what the FED does it can't undo that. If lenders won't lend and borrowers won't borrow whatever the FED does will matter not a whit. The music's finally over. It's time to pay the piper.

#10 bigtrader

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 07:57 PM

Perma bear and perma snortin' bulls might find the next 3 years of interest after this leg up. Few remember, can relate to or will admit to themselves what happened in the mid 70s. A traders market is soooooo boring. YAAAAAAAAAWN

Edited by bigtrader, 25 July 2009 - 08:00 PM.

No longer interested in debating with IGNORANT people.