43 replies to this topic

[diogenes227]

It's a terrible half-measure and will end up failing...

Eventually we'll be forced to go to socialized medicine with supplemental private insurance like most European countries. Obamacare will just kill small business and many unemployed who still can't afford healthcare and food at the same time...Small businesses are the ones who create employment, and frankly, I'd support single-payer for that reason alone. Hopefully doctors will balk and stop accepting Medicare and the like, forcing us to go to socialized medicine.

Of course there will be no way to do that until there is also reform of higher education - doctors' salaries are a huge part of health care costs, and those salaries are justified because of the terrible student loan burden, this has to be fixed at the same time. Ie., at least medical school needs to be Federalized.

Sorry, I know it's radical and lefty, but it will happen eventually...The free market works in many areas, but not in health care. It will collapse of its own accord eventually, Obamacare will do nothing to contain costs or help many uninsured. It will become clear that the long-term effects of such a terrible health care system are horrible for the US economy because of the unproductive allocation of capital to this sector to maintain it, the burden of the uninsured on the health care system and declining life-expectencies (which means fewer productive work years). Then things will really change.

Nothing to be sorry for. You are right. The free market does not work in health care. Costs will go up forever or until the entire system collapses because people will pay anything for heath (especially for their children). And yes the "terrible student loan burden" for medical students (for everyone for that matter) needs to be alleviated -- possibly something along the lines of "if you can't get into medical school, it will be paid for, but do it to help your fellow citizens because you're going to get 'only' make a comfortable living."

Yes, lots to be done going forward. But I'm an optimist on the future of this country. This really is a "new dawn in America." The big battle is over. Now it's time to fight the nasty little skirmishes against the rear guard to make it work and finally put an end to this foolish war.

Edited by diogenes227, 28 June 2012 - 10:39 AM.

[zigzag]

Noble idea. Horrible timing. Divisive execution.

[IndexTrader]

It's a terrible half-measure and will end up failing...

Eventually we'll be forced to go to socialized medicine with supplemental private insurance like most European countries. Obamacare will just kill small business and many unemployed who still can't afford healthcare and food at the same time...Small businesses are the ones who create employment, and frankly, I'd support single-payer for that reason alone. Hopefully doctors will balk and stop accepting Medicare and the like, forcing us to go to socialized medicine.

Of course there will be no way to do that until there is also reform of higher education - doctors' salaries are a huge part of health care costs, and those salaries are justified because of the terrible student loan burden, this has to be fixed at the same time. Ie., at least medical school needs to be Federalized.

Sorry, I know it's radical and lefty, but it will happen eventually...The free market works in many areas, but not in health care. It will collapse of its own accord eventually, Obamacare will do nothing to contain costs or help many uninsured. It will become clear that the long-term effects of such a terrible health care system are horrible for the US economy because of the unproductive allocation of capital to this sector to maintain it, the burden of the uninsured on the health care system and declining life-expectencies (which means fewer productive work years). Then things will really change.

Obamacare isn't socialized medicine??? Federalizing doctors salaries???

[spielchekr]

So CJ John Roberts says insurance is a means (ie government sanctioned form) of taxation? I'm speechless.

[pdx5]

Romney speech today: "The court ruled on it's last day that Obamacare is constitutional. I will write an executive order on my first day in office to exempt all 50 states and work to repeal it in it's entirety" It is not up to the courts and legal system to decide if a law is good or bad. It is entirely up to the voters to elect the congress and president who will pass laws of their choice.

[spielchekr]

I ask... are health insurance companies the new IRS?

[TTrader47]

Romney speech today: "The court ruled on it's last day that Obamacare is constitutional.
I will write an executive order on my first day in office to exempt all 50 states and work
to repeal it in it's entirety"

It is not up to the courts and legal system to decide if a law is good or bad.
It is entirely up to the voters to elect the congress and president who will pass
laws of their choice.

Kind of sounds like Obama using an executive privilege for something that he had no part of and "knew nothing about it"

[spielchekr]

I ask... are health insurance companies the new IRS?

Kinda gives new meaning to "health insurance agent".

[zigzag]

I ask... are health insurance companies the new IRS?

added taxes are part of this package to make it fly. additionally - mandated increased business expenses are "like" taxes. aren't you following this?

Noble idea. Horrible timing. Divisive execution.

[spielchekr]

I ask... are health insurance companies the new IRS?

added taxes are part of this package to make it fly. additionally - mandated increased business expenses are "like" taxes. aren't you following this?

Noble idea. Horrible timing. Divisive execution.

Not "like" a tax, is a tax. Here's what I'm following, verbatim from the Supreme Court Chief Justice...

But “it is reasonable to construe what Congress has done as increasing taxes on those who have a certain amount of income, but (who) choose to go without health insurance. Such legislation is within Congress’s power to tax.”


This is Congressional power of taxation being stated, how can I not follow that? Btw, tax evaders frequently get very lengthy sentences.

Edited by spielchekr, 28 June 2012 - 01:08 PM.