18 replies to this topic

[Rogerdodger]

If Health Care is a "right", does that mean that we all have a claim on a portion of a doctor's life. Has he become our property, at least part time whenever we demand it?
Is Lawn Care also a right and thus does a doctor have a claim on a portion of a grounds keeper's life?
Is Dental Care also a right? Baby Sitting? Shoe Shining? Food Preparation? Housing? Transportation?

When did slavery, in small segments, become a right?

NHS suffers ‘brain drain’ of doctors
The National Health Service is suffering a “brain drain” of doctors as more medics trained at taxpayers’ expense choose to pursue their careers overseas, according to Financial Times research.
Most go to Australia or New Zealand, say recruiters and doctors’ organisations, and data suggest more now choose to stay longer or settle permanently.

Doctors at all levels complain of an overly bureaucratic NHS where they lack control. (Freedom)
Many report extensive “goodwill hours” and coming in on days off, which would breach European Union working time regulations if recorded, and say only family and friends in the UK keep them from making a move abroad.

“One of the things keeps us here is belief in the NHS,” said Tom Dolphin, chairman of the British Medical Association junior doctors’ committee, who said he was aware of many younger trainees that were determined to go.
“Many feel abused by the long hours and there’s the feeling that the NHS is being undermined. That eats away at your faith and that makes people want to leave.”

The battle between individual freedom versus slavery under the banner of Collective Rights for the "common good" continues...

"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself."
"The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem." ~ Milton Friedman

Edited by Rogerdodger, 25 August 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[MaryAM]

If Health Care is a "right", does that mean that we all have a claim on a portion of a doctor's life. Has he become our property, at least part time whenever we demand it?
Is Lawn Care also a right and thus does a doctor have a claim on a portion of a grounds keeper's life?
Is Dental Care also a right? Baby Sitting? Shoe Shining? Food Preparation? Housing? Transportation?

When did slavery, in small segments, become a right?

NHS suffers ‘brain drain’ of doctors
The National Health Service is suffering a “brain drain” of doctors as more medics trained at taxpayers’ expense choose to pursue their careers overseas, according to Financial Times research.
Most go to Australia or New Zealand, say recruiters and doctors’ organisations, and data suggest more now choose to stay longer or settle permanently.

Doctors at all levels complain of an overly bureaucratic NHS where they lack control. (Freedom)
Many report extensive “goodwill hours” and coming in on days off, which would breach European Union working time regulations if recorded, and say only family and friends in the UK keep them from making a move abroad.

“One of the things keeps us here is belief in the NHS,” said Tom Dolphin, chairman of the British Medical Association junior doctors’ committee, who said he was aware of many younger trainees that were determined to go.
“Many feel abused by the long hours and there’s the feeling that the NHS is being undermined. That eats away at your faith and that makes people want to leave.”

The battle between individual freedom versus slavery under the banner of Collective Rights for the "common good" continues...

"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself."
"The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem." ~ Milton Friedman

Most of the time I agree with you - except for health care access - I for one don't want to get on an elevator in a major city where the cleaning crew just got off with one of them carrying active TB and I get to breath it because the person could not go to a clinic and get a diagnosis, be put on meds and quarantined from public access directly or indirectly. My health care is through the VA and I believe I get the best health care in the world. All of my doctors are paid a salary (and a very good one at that), my health care is portable - I can go to any VA center in the country and with a swipe of my card, my entire health record is in front of my DR in a matter of seconds, and I don't get it for FREE - my co-payments sometimes run $500 a month - but still way less than insurance runs in the private sector. Also please tell me how public unions can make a taxing authority PURCHASE INSURANCE FROM A PRIVATE COMPANY. HOW IS THIS EVEN LEGAL IN A FREE MARKET SYSTEM? The insurance companies don't need the rest of the population to make a profit as long a government (local, state and federal) collectively is the largest employer in the country.
Mary Anne

[Rogerdodger]

the person could not go to a clinic and get a diagnosis

That's available now, under the current system, without a government takeover and all that would entail (government mandated diet & exercise, no salt, no sodas, no cake, cookies or pie?).

my co-payments sometimes run $500 a month

That's $60,000 every decade that could be put into a Health Savings Account, which might just inspire some people to take better care of themselves if they had the potential to get back some of that.

Currently I am self insured.
A person with insurance is only concerned with their co-pays.
A self insured individual shops around for the free market best deal.
From experience, I have found that an insurance paid procedure such as a colonoscopy, might be billed at over $1500 and require lots of paper work, but a cash paying customer can get it done for about 1/3rd!

Nothing in life is free, but government involvement in health care and insurance has driven up the cost and red tape and is currently causing a health care crisis as seen in the "Free" government health care.
NHS suffers ‘brain drain’ of doctors
Doctors limit new Medicare patients

PS: Do an internet search about the wife of a politician who made $300,000 a year at a "non-profit" hospital.
Her job? "steering patients who don't have private insurance -- primarily poor, black people -- to other health care facilities."

Edited by Rogerdodger, 29 August 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[MaryAM]

the person could not go to a clinic and get a diagnosis

That's available now, under the current system, without a government takeover and all that would entail (government mandated diet & exercise, no salt, no sodas, no cake, cookies or pie?).

my co-payments sometimes run $500 a month

That's $60,000 every decade that could be put into a Health Savings Account, which might just inspire some people to take better care of themselves if they had the potential to get back some of that.

Currently I am self insured.
A person with insurance is only concerned with their co-pays.
A self insured individual shops around for the free market best deal.
From experience, I have found that an insurance paid procedure such as a colonoscopy, might be billed at over $1500 and require lots of paper work, but a cash paying customer can get it done for about 1/3rd!

Nothing in life is free, but government involvement in health care and insurance has driven up the cost and red tape and is currently causing a health care crisis as seen in the "Free" government health care.
NHS suffers ‘brain drain’ of doctors
Doctors limit new Medicare patients

PS: Do an internet search about the wife of a politician who made $300,000 a year at a "non-profit" hospital.
Her job? "steering patients who don't have private insurance -- primarily poor, black people -- to other health care facilities."

I said sometimes $500/month - last month was $75. Also, there is no one who would insure me at any cost - I have Hyper IgE/ with chronic asthma and constantly fighting infections, am on 6 shots a month of Xolair (at over $1,000 per shot) - I'm glad I have a government health care system - i would be dead otherwise. I think one of the inhalers I use is close to $300 a month.
Mary Anne

[Rogerdodger]

I said sometimes $500/month - last month was $75. Also, there is no one who would insure me at any cost - I have Hyper IgE/ with chronic asthma and constantly fighting infections, am on 6 shots a month of Xolair (at over $1,000 per shot) - I'm glad I have a government health care system - i would be dead otherwise. I think one of the inhalers I use is close to $300 a month.
Mary Anne

That makes my original point:
Someone else is working to pay that for you.
When someone else is forced to pay for our needs, or work for our needs, we are claiming a portion of their life.
They used to pick cotton for us.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 29 August 2012 - 08:51 PM.

[Rogerdodger]

On the other hand, a person who has paid for insurance, medicare and social security DOES have a rightful claim to THEIR money back with interest. And I would add veterans to that, since they have really served us. I think they should get the retirement and health care that the politicians get. And vice versa.

[MaryAM]

Israel has one of the best health care systems in the world. All hospitals are owned by the government - all staff is paid a salary. All medical personnel, doctors offices, are paid salaries by the government. They have state of the art equipment and many with dual citizenship go there for treatment. Medical care is a right and an obligation of a functional society. But then its my opinion that so is water, food, housing, electricity, heat in winter - the basics for humans to survive. It makes me sad to see someone along the streets begging for food and a backpack in the United States. Knowing that they are probably sleeping on the streets. We don't need to emulate Europe - why not Israel since we SUPPORT THEM. We provide the funds for their health care system but not our own. By the way I have a disabled son - on SSI - who needs medications that cost way beyond his monthly benefit. Should I just watch him die or maybe facilitate it. Mary Anne

[Rogerdodger]

It makes me sad to see someone along the streets begging for food and a backpack in the United States.

Panhandler arrested, claims to have made $60,000 last year... TAX FREE!

Edited by Rogerdodger, 31 August 2012 - 10:46 PM.

[Rogerdodger]

My first real life experience with helping the sick took place when I was about 9 or 10 years old.
My favorite cousin in Springfield, Mo. contracted polio and was she placed in an iron lung.
Then I heard about a so called NON-PROFIT charity, the "Mother's Mach of Dimes" which supposedly sought a cure for polio and assisted those with the disease.
I volunteered to help march the neighborhood, soliciting contributions of nickles and dimes to fill up little books which were then turned in to the charity.
I was very proud to help and the neighbors were only too glad to assist.
Then an investigation into the organization revealed that the vast majority of the contributed money was going to support the lifestyle of the charity's promoter.
Then my cousin died.

That is the pattern for most all of the "non-profit" scam charities today.
Government is just as bad where it is said that only 20 cents on every welfare dollar goes to welfare.
The rest goes to six-figure bureaucrats and their friends.
If you are really concerned about the poor that should OUTRAGE YOU!
(Like that Chicago senator's wife making $300K yearly turning away the poor, at a "non profit" hospital.)

And all the while doctors, besmirched as being selfish, are literally enslaved, owned my their task masters and ripped away from time spent with their families:
"Many report extensive “goodwill hours” and coming in on days off".
I bet their families and kids really miss seeing them.

"am on 6 shots a month of Xolair (at over $1,000 per shot)"
I wonder what the price would be in a free market without government palms being greased all along the way.
And do you you really believe that a government takeover of healthcare would pay for that $6,000 a month medicine when their policies have already caused shortages of cancer medicines due to their price controls?

Paramedics turn to expired drugs due to shortages
The University of Utah's Drug Information Service reports 275 medications are in short supply. Clinics and hospitals have reported struggles getting chemotherapy drugs to treat cancer and anesthetics used in surgery.

Your health care is covered, but who's going to treat you?
Shortages across the U.S. have left those in the medical profession wondering who's going to treat the 32 million who will have insurance.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 01 September 2012 - 09:38 AM.

[Dex]

Israel has one of the best health care systems in the world. All hospitals are owned by the government - all staff is paid a salary. All medical personnel, doctors offices, are paid salaries by the government. They have state of the art equipment and many with dual citizenship go there for treatment. Medical care is a right and an obligation of a functional society. But then its my opinion that so is water, food, housing, electricity, heat in winter - the basics for humans to survive. It makes me sad to see someone along the streets begging for food and a backpack in the United States. Knowing that they are probably sleeping on the streets. We don't need to emulate Europe - why not Israel since we SUPPORT THEM. We provide the funds for their health care system but not our own. By the way I have a disabled son - on SSI - who needs medications that cost way beyond his monthly benefit. Should I just watch him die or maybe facilitate it.
Mary Anne

It looks like mandatory participation and a mix of private ins and gov't provided for the poor - something like the USA.
http://en.wikipedia...._care_in_Israel

Edited by Dex, 01 September 2012 - 09:53 AM.