25 replies to this topic

[dwnowhere1]

Just found this on Bloomberg which highlights my point.

https://www.bloomber...cklash-is-swift

[flyers&divers]

To come to the defense of IB the last outage very brief was over a yr ago.

 

Peterffy, the owner of IB is a visionary innovator and built IB from scratch. 

In the late seventies when I was trading Sugar on the floor and index options on the NYFE floor

I have heard of this guy using a hand held computer on the floor of the American Stock Exchange. At that time we were scribbling trades on a card

and handed it over to a clerk standing nearby or behind us who went to the other trader's clerk to check, calculated everything in our head.

The other members sued Peterffy for unfair competition:). The rest is history.

His option market making firm Timber Hill evolved into IB. IB should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as MAN.

 

Technical problems are part of todays trading experience and we have to be prepared by having accounts at different places 

and not to be over leveraged.

 

Personal styles wary but it could be good to think of the concept I mainly hear associated with options trading. Trade in small chunks but very frequently.

If one gets hit once in a while (like during an outage - which by the way could turn out profitable) it does not hurt as much as 

if everything depended on a few concentrated positions.

 

I have been with IB since day one and of course I too was frustrated yesterday, followed the action on other platforms and traded a little.

IB is tough on the customers which makes it less likely that they will ever go the way of MAN.

 

Regards,

F&D

[12SPX]

Awwwww so miss those early morning calls to your broker who gave the trade to a runner and then seconds later came back from the S&P pit with your fill!!!  Was very efficient and I was a slow converter for a couple years to trading the Emini, only liked it for day trading.  Those were the days,sigh.....

[dwnowhere1]

flyers&divers:

 

To come to the defense of IB the last outage very brief was over a yr ago.

I believe you read me wrong.   I'm not dumping on IB or singling them out.

The KEY point is the industry has changed and shifted a lot more risk onto the trader which IMHO most new traders and few old don't understand.

Using gambling games as an example.   They are statistically designed so you will lose - other than card counting - where you will be removed from the casino and blacklisted.

Yet millions of people gamble each year, believing they are the exception and/or either know something someone else doesn't which swings the odds in there favor.

The same thing applies to those investing (I despise this word) in the markets.

Most are taking larger risks than they should.

Sadly, since business recognized they could shift risks to their employees and lobbied Congress to do just that (this is how 401K came about), coupled with

the Wall Street lobby which saw a great revenue stream from making this shift, it raised people Fears about saving for their old age.   With the FED keeping interest rate low,

it created a perfect storm to increase risks that most should not be taking.  

My2Cents

[12SPX]

flyers&divers:

 

To come to the defense of IB the last outage very brief was over a yr ago.

I believe you read me wrong.   I'm not dumping on IB or singling them out.

The KEY point is the industry has changed and shifted a lot more risk onto the trader which IMHO most new traders and few old don't understand.

Using gambling games as an example.   They are statistically designed so you will lose - other than card counting - where you will be removed from the casino and blacklisted.

Yet millions of people gamble each year, believing they are the exception and/or either know something someone else doesn't which swings the odds in there favor.

The same thing applies to those investing (I despise this word) in the markets.

Most are taking larger risks than they should.

Sadly, since business recognized they could shift risks to their employees and lobbied Congress to do just that (this is how 401K came about), coupled with

the Wall Street lobby which saw a great revenue stream from making this shift, it raised people Fears about saving for their old age.   With the FED keeping interest rate low,

it created a perfect storm to increase risks that most should not be taking.  

My2Cents

Agree with you on that as they are constantly adjusting margins etc that should be done really by authorities and be steadfast not flipping every time the market moves a little....

[dwnowhere1]

I go deeper than that.  Don't know if any of the following is true, and whether or not any of the regulatory agencies (SEC, etc) monitor it, but I one can make a case for:

1)  Data / Order Vendor is able to see all trades since they transmit them to the exchange.

2)  The Data / Order Vendor has their own trading staff.

3)  They gather the order flow information and provide it to their trading staff.

4)  Because the exchange requires one to declare whether they are professional or not, this order flow can be stratified if wanted.

5)  The Data/Order Vendor traders make their trades based on this order flow.

THEY HAVE INFO THE REST OF US DON'T HAVE.  To take this a step further:

Since they control both the datafeed being sent as well as the timing of order submitted to the exchange,

They can delay the datafeed to cause orders to be placed late, and/or delay the order flow, so their orders are placed first.

 

Like I said, Don't know if any of this is true, but one wonders at times.

[12SPX]

Awwwww well I do know that there were traders in the pit following my trade placements back in the day as volumes on the options I was selling seemed to climb and become the most traded options interestingly.  I didn't mind though it was kind of a compliment but it never affected me so I didn't worry about it.

[dwnowhere1]

 

I didn't mind though it was kind of a compliment but it never affected me so I didn't worry about it.

The point I'm trying to make is RISK unknown to traders who have been effectively forced into the market for whatever reason, (making money for retirement is a pretty good reason since few are left to the average individual).

While the previous "possible", might not affect one in normal markets, when everyone wants in or out, fill prices can be way off, not even considering limit up/down (never seen an up). 

Edited by dwnowhere1, 09 December 2020 - 12:07 PM.

[12SPX]

Aw I see what you mean now....

[sixpack]

So many good points and I won't bother to quote them.  Sometimes it's a good idea to step away.  I took a long hiatus from all trading for many years.  It was by default, mostly.  Our oldest son suffered a severe spinal cord injury which repurposed our life.  Long story short, he was paralyzed form the chest down and after many long months he walked out of the hospital, which led to a whole new set of challenges financially, etc.  All is well now.  But, I learned that any time I feel uncomfortable with the market I walk away for awhile.  I may keep a few things on my radar.  Just in case.  I hope you figure it out.  I do follow your posts with interest and appreciate your contributions.