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MERCK sees the light


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#11 claire

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 07:46 PM

Claire,

Give it a rest!

What you say would have more credence if the FDA and CDC were not run by crooks and the media were not bought by big pharma.

There are just too many doctors that confirm the efficacy of IVM.

Go to flccc.net and scroll down a bit. On the left side there is an article from India called ‘Defeating the Delta variant.’
This is just one of many success stories.

I don’t always need double blind placebo controlled studies. More often than not, common sense works just as well.

gis

 

 

I have no expectation that most people who have strong convictions about Ivermectin will change their minds or won't continue to be convinced by anything that appears to support their convictions. I can offer contradictory evidence to the article you cite. The drop in contagion in India started before Ivermectin was given. BTW, India dropped its guideline for treatment using Ivermectin in July. There's more and I could offer citations, but  I agree that there's no point in debating the details of this issue. 

 

If you are assuming that I blindly follow the FDA or the CDC in their recommendations, let me assure you that I don't, nor do I easily accept all findings from pharmaceutical companies. I don't believe all of them are corrupt but rather that some of them may be corrupt, incorrect, or conclusions may be premature.  The studies I cite about Covid are by leading organizations such as the NIH where many reviewers representing wide areas of scientific research and reviews of the best evidence are presented. 

 

My personal policy is to try to wait five years before taking any newly FDA approved drugs. Often, it takes that long or longer to learn of side-effects that were not found in the original studies, or even to discover fraudulent research. There are circumstances when I wouldn't wait, depending on the seriousness of the illness and the alternate treatments available. And I was concerned about not following my general policy for the vaccine, but this became a relatively easy decision based on the risks of Covid infection.

 

For deep understanding, common sense isn't enough.  In fact, most of our currently accepted science was seen as incredulous at one time - as defying common sense. Common sense can offer hypotheses that need to be scientifically tested. Common sense may leave people thinking the earth is flat. Most scientific understanding in physics defies common sense. We wouldn't have computers or even airplanes if we were to rely on common sense.

 

There's no personal gain for me in taking considerable time to present what I consider important information that counters what I see as misleading or false information. I do that with the hope that a few readers may take precautions that best protect them and others during this horrible pandemic. 



#12 da_cheif

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 09:37 PM

 

 

The first report was about preliminary data in a small group (72 subjects total divided into 3 groups of hospitals patients). They stated that the findings needed to be verified by larger studies. It has NOT been verified.

 

The 2nd article is a tangled science-babble report conflating the positive effects of the treatment for River Blindness with treatment for Covid and published in "The Desert Review?" - not worth the time to read.

 

During Feb., 2021, Merke said: "its analysis of existing and emerging studies of ivermectin to treat Covid 19 found no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effort for covid." They added that "there was a concerning lack of safety data in the majority of studies testing ivermectin to treat covid and cautioned against the use of the drug beyond its use as an antiparasitic."  https://www.merck.co...id-19-pandemic/

 

To date, Merck has not changed that view, and they are the manufacturer of Ivermectin. I've sure they would be delighted to promote it as effective if it were.

 

The largest and most comprehensive current studies have not verified any benefits and all address safety concerns - not just for the large veterinary doses but for any treatment.  Yet, many physicians who should know better are passing out Rxs to patients not only for treatment but prevention of Covid and for long term use! I hope the placebo effect helps some, comforts others, and doesn't damage many. I also hope those people aren't foolishly encouraged to use few measures for self-protection and the protection of others as well as feel no need to be vaccinated.

 

clare musta took the vax   lol    



#13 da_cheif

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 09:39 PM

 

 

 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/33278625/
 
https://www.thedeser...c9e8ddc005.html

 
The first report was about preliminary data in a small group (72 subjects total divided into 3 groups of hospitals patients). They stated that the findings needed to be verified by larger studies. It has NOT vaccinated.

Claire,

Did you ever look at

Www.Flccc.net ?

These doctors have been using Ivermectin successfully for a long time.

gis

 

I have witnessed the powerful effect of Ivermectin first hand.

Others can only spew nonsense they have no actual knowledge of.

 

After reading literally hundred of reports of people having incredible success quickly with Ivermectin...

 

My nephew very recently came down with Covid and was going downhill fast with full blown Covid symptoms, so on about day 4, we got him some Ivermectin.

After first dose, progression stopped, and he said he felt slightly better.

2nd dose, substantially better.

3rd dose, pretty much back to normal.

 

And this has been the general experience of almost all the folks who have documented their experience with it.

 

Your mileage may vary, but Ivermection has proven itself to generally very safe after nearly 4 billion doses in Humans, even at much higher doses than being used for covid in some trials.

As with any drug, there could be a one off where some has a bad reaction, but it has a better saftey record than Tylenol. One gal even tried to commit suicide by taking 1200 mg (400 3mg piils!), or 50 to 100 times the dose for Covid, and survived just fine, with some side effects, but no organ damage etc. Don't try taking a 100x dose of Tylenol.......

 

If you cannot put 2 and 2 together on the all out war on Ivermectin, well then, it is what it is....

 

 

 

For centuries, people have made claims of cures for just about any illness or disease, with all manner of treatment, and have supplied anecdotal *evidence* of cures. This includes all kinds of "snake-oils," potions, magical cures by healers, rituals, prayers, exorcisms, crystals, and a large variety of other treatments that may be harmless or very harmful.

 

Most of these had some credentialed people supporting the claims which they verified by poorly conducted studies or anecdotal *evidence* that supported their views. People don't offer anecdotal evidence of those for whom it shows no effect. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence. 

Some are scams for monetary gains. Some are honest efforts. The only way to verify such claims are by properly conducted scientific testing. Sometimes the evidence isn't clear until many such studies are done. When we learn more, it's possible we will learn that it may be helpful for some people or under certain conditions.

 

There are a host of repurposed drugs being investigated that may reduce symptoms for some people. Some may be very useful.  Here is the latest comprehensive review of Ivermectin, which may not be the final word, but it's where we are now re Ivermectin. 

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....ih.gov/34318930

 

so wiping out covid in delhi and mexico city with ivm is fake news?  >. The only way to verify such claims are by properly conducted scientific testing<   .....that why the fda has yet to give full  approval to the vaccines.?....just extended the emergency approval....till the full vetting of the vaxes efficacy...   people are dying from the vax      ......if the vax is so good and apparently we are the guinea pigs in this.......why if its so good do we need a  2nd and 3rd and prolly a 4th booster......why.....cus the gov knows the problem....thats why congress and mail people are exempt from taking it till they see how the peasants and sheeple. respond....i wanna see joe and karmalas verified vax cards


Edited by da_cheif, 14 September 2021 - 09:48 PM.


#14 claire

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Posted 14 September 2021 - 11:11 PM

"so wiping out covid in delhi and mexico city with ivm is fake news?  >. The only way to verify such claims are by properly conducted scientific testing<   .....that why the fda has yet to give full  approval to the vaccines.?....just extended the emergency approval....till the full vetting of the vaxes efficacy...   people are dying from the vax      ......if the vax is so good and apparently we are the guinea pigs in this.......why if its so good do we need a  2nd and 3rd and prolly a 4th booster......why.....cus the gov knows the problem....thats why congress and mail people are exempt from taking it till they see how the peasants and sheeple. respond....i wanna see joe and karmalas verified vax cards"

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 What are your thoughts about these statistics?

 

We are averaging about 1500 DEATHS/DAY from Covid. Note - - per day!

 

In the U.S., 99.2% of the deaths are of the unvaccinated. The deaths for those vaccinated are 0.8%. Fully vaccinated have ranged from 0.1% - 5% of those hospitalized.

 

A conservative estimate is that it cost $5.7 BILLION $ to treat UNVACCINATED Covid patients in the last 3 months. This estimate does not include outpatient costs and medications. 99% of this cost was preventable by vaccination. Nor does this include the future medical expenses of post-covid long term damage to those people.

 

The estimate was for $20,000 per hospitalization - likely a very low-ball figure. It can cost well over one million for one patient in an ICU. There were 287,000 hospitalization from June-Aug, and the numbers have been rising now that the Delta variant has taken over. It cost $3.7 billion in August alone.

 

 Are you considering the moral responsibility you are carrying by triggering fear of vaccinations by cryptic allusions to nefarious plots?

 



 


Edited by claire, 14 September 2021 - 11:12 PM.


#15 gilford

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 08:38 PM

How much does it cost to treat the sugar carb junk food and alcohol freaks that fill our hospitals every day? If you want to force covid vaccines based on cost maybe you should force diet and exercise too.

#16 Ken

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:19 PM

I have to agree with other posters. Claire, enough of the manure!  You must work for a pharmaceutical company or the FDA, CDC.

 

I have posted a link to The Hindustan Times titled, "33 Districts in Uttar Pradesh are now Covid-free: State Govt" which was published as recently as September 10, 2021.

 

Uttar Pradesh is an Indian state with a population of a little over 200 million people and they are poor.  Uttar Pradesh has beaten Covid-19 without vaccinations but with the use of Ivermectin.  What more proof does anyone need?  There's your study!  200,000,000 people!

 

An excerpt from the linked article"

 

Overall, the state has a total of 199 active cases, while the positivity rate came down to less than 0.01 per cent.

 

There are no active cases of the coronavirus disease (Covid-19) in 33 districts of Uttar Pradesh, the state government informed on Friday. About 67 districts have not reported a single new case of the viral infection in the last 24 hours, the government said, noting the steady improvement of the Covid-19 situation in the state.

 

https://www.hindusta...1267966925.html


Edited by Ken, 15 September 2021 - 10:20 PM.


#17 claire

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:39 PM

How much does it cost to treat the sugar carb junk food and alcohol freaks that fill our hospitals every day? If you want to force covid vaccines based on cost maybe you should force diet and exercise too.

 

 

 

So far, 1 out of 500 Americans have died from Covid -- total 660,000+ and still rising with 99.2% among the unvaccinated, each of whom are also infecting 5-8 people.

 

Your comment is a red herring serving as a distraction from the significant issue --spreading a pandemic, which is also very costly. I wouldn't be recommending that people do things to destroy their bodies and ignore the scientific findings about obesity, alcoholism, etc., but a big difference is that these people don't directly kill others by damaging themselves.

 

Nor would I withhold medical care for those who damage themselves by foolish behavior or for the unvaccinated who also damage others unnecessarily. But I do think people should be aware of the very high costs of medical care as well as the broad economic damage caused by not containing this pandemic as well as we could and should.

 

Behavior that causes injury to others is regulated - eg  safety laws protecting workers, regulations about pollution and clean water, numerous local, state, and national laws to protect the public from harm by others, many laws about driving such as when intoxicated, requiring passing test, child seats, and much more.  Do you believe that we should allow anyone to do anything that harms or kills others? 

 

The same people who are discouraging vaccinations are those who believed for a long time that there was no pandemic -- that it was a hoax, or that it was no different than the flu and it would disappear before last winter. People were mocked for wearing masks and altering their behavior for self-protection and the protection of others. Names were thrown around citing "evidence" to support those views. Lots of Americans believed it. Some still do, and a great many more people have died than was necessary.

 

And while I'm at it, I may as well inform people that epidemiologists and virologists are paid incredibly low salaries. Entry positions average about $50,000-$60,000 and those with moderate experience average about $125,000-$150,000. They do their work because they value and love science far more than they value and love money. Some of you may find that hard to understand and devalue them if your standard for success is based on how much money someone earns. We should be grateful to them and all the scientists who devote their lives to advancing science. 



#18 claire

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 10:58 PM

I have to agree with other posters. Claire, enough of the manure!  You must work for a pharmaceutical company or the FDA, CDC.

 

I have posted a link to The Hindustan Times titled, "33 Districts in Uttar Pradesh are now Covid-free: State Govt" which was published as recently as September 10, 2021.

 

Uttar Pradesh is an Indian state with a population of a little over 200 million people and they are poor.  Uttar Pradesh has beaten Covid-19 without vaccinations but with the use of Ivermectin.  What more proof does anyone need?  There's your study!  200,000,000 people!

 

An excerpt from the linked article"

 

Overall, the state has a total of 199 active cases, while the positivity rate came down to less than 0.01 per cent.

 

There are no active cases of the coronavirus disease (Covid-19) in 33 districts of Uttar Pradesh, the state government informed on Friday. About 67 districts have not reported a single new case of the viral infection in the last 24 hours, the government said, noting the steady improvement of the Covid-19 situation in the state.

 

https://www.hindusta...1267966925.html

 

 

Let me assure you that I don't work for a pharmaceutical company or any of the agencies you name nor for any other nefarious group. Everyone with an opposing point of view isn't a liar or corrupt. 

 

The article you site says nothing about Ivermectin or its use in the area you mentions. It reports only that those areas are Covid-free. There is no data offered other than your statement that they beat covid with Ivermectin. This isn't evidence or proof. If there is such evidence, I'm sure many scientists would be delighted to examine it and to verify it's authenticity.



#19 Ken

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:08 PM

Claire wrote, "The article you site says nothing about Ivermectin or its use in the area you mentions. It reports only that those areas are Covid-free. There is no data offered other than your statement that they beat covid with Ivermectin. This isn't evidence or proof. If there is such evidence, I'm sure many scientists would be delighted to examine it and to verify it's authenticity."

 

Took me 30 seconds on the internet.  Here you go----> https://www.thedeser...31ae87887a.html

 

"Uttar Pradesh led India in its use and has done even better than Delhi because they use Ivermectin early and preventatively."

 

By the way, I would also like to add that the Indian Bar Association has filed a lawsuit against the World Health Organization Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan on May 25, 2021.  Why?  Because The Indian Bar Association in the lawsuit accuses the WHO of causing the deaths of Indian citizens by misleading them about Ivermectin.

 

Here is the Press Release directly from the Indian Bar Association. https://indianbarass...MAY-26-2021.pdf


Edited by Ken, 15 September 2021 - 11:08 PM.


#20 claire

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Posted 15 September 2021 - 11:54 PM

 

Claire wrote, "The article you site says nothing about Ivermectin or its use in the area you mentions. It reports only that those areas are Covid-free. There is no data offered other than your statement that they beat covid with Ivermectin. This isn't evidence or proof. If there is such evidence, I'm sure many scientists would be delighted to examine it and to verify it's authenticity."

 

Took me 30 seconds on the internet.  Here you go----> https://www.thedeser...31ae87887a.html

 

"Uttar Pradesh led India in its use and has done even better than Delhi because they use Ivermectin early and preventatively."

 

By the way, I would also like to add that the Indian Bar Association has filed a lawsuit against the World Health Organization Chief Scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan on May 25, 2021.  Why?  Because The Indian Bar Association in the lawsuit accuses the WHO of causing the deaths of Indian citizens by misleading them about Ivermectin.

 

Here is the Press Release directly from the Indian Bar Association. https://indianbarass...MAY-26-2021.pdf

 

 

 

This isn't evidence either. These are articles offering conclusions and presented with no specifics that can be validated. Show me scholarly publications and reviews substantiating these assumptions and conclusions.

 

I'm not going to extend these debates by replying to most posts that I consider irrelevant. I'm sure Mark will agree that it can easily become contentious and not helpful to anyone as well as distract from the focus of this forum. I had been trying to limit my posts to weekends, but haven't held to that. It's likely that I'm spitting into the wind anyway, and those who care to hear another point of view have seen enough of my posts to get the gist of it.  I do have more productive ways to spend my time and find it extremely unpleasant to have my intentions and integrity maligned.