Edited by nimblebear, 04 May 2007 - 03:35 PM.
Gas prices getting absurd.
#1
Posted 04 May 2007 - 03:34 PM
#2
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:07 PM
Point of order, please.Oil companies haven't built new refineries in 30 years, yet they continue to rake in sky high profits. Rather than invest in new refineries, they just repair, and have maintenance shutdowns all at the same time right before summer driving season. Consumers will continue to get screwed, until they get rid of SUV's and start to seek efficiency and conserve. Apparently they don't mind the pain, since demand continues at record levels.
The oil companies have nothing to do with anything you have just described, it is your Congressional and legislative leaders who have passed environmental laws in the past that keep oil companies from keeping prices lower. This includes this newly created ethanol additive that is more expensive to manufacture and is forcing all of the oil companies to retool their refineries to in order to produce this boondoggle.
If you look at the balance sheet of every major oil producer, they currently have a profit margin of around 7-9% based on the company. So if you want to vent, talk to the people who you elected and tell them enough is enough and get their act together for the peoples benefit.
Fib
Better to ignore me than abhor me.
“Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it” - Benjamin Franklin
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance" - George Bernard Shaw
Demagogue: A leader who makes use of popular prejudices, false claims and promises in order to gain power.
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#3
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:24 PM
#4
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:27 PM
JV
#5
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:28 PM
~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe ~
#6
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:37 PM
No...oil companies, like every other business out there, determine their pricing based on supply and demand.Oil companies know consumers will have to pay up.
This would mean that the best cure for higher prices is....higher prices - UNLESS - pointy head politicians decide that they know better in how to run this same business and change the rules based solely on using the emotion of fear of the unknown.
There is nothing that says that you MUST buy oil or its derivatives. Nor are you forced to buy a set amount. YOU, as the consumer, dictate price. Period. That's the way capitalism works. Be grateful that you can make a difference, most around the world can't.
Fib
Better to ignore me than abhor me.
“Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it” - Benjamin Franklin
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance" - George Bernard Shaw
Demagogue: A leader who makes use of popular prejudices, false claims and promises in order to gain power.
Technical Watch Subscriptions
#7
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:46 PM
No...oil companies, like every other business out there, determine their pricing based on supply and demand.Oil companies know consumers will have to pay up.
This would mean that the best cure for higher prices is....higher prices - UNLESS - pointy head politicians decide that they know better in how to run this same business and change the rules based solely on using the emotion of fear of the unknown.
There is nothing that says that you MUST buy oil or its derivatives. Nor are you forced to buy a set amount. YOU, as the consumer, dictate price. Period. That's the way capitalism works. Be grateful that you can make a difference, most around the world can't.
Fib
So consumers are to blame..watta politico junk
#8
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:57 PM
Point of order, please.Oil companies haven't built new refineries in 30 years, yet they continue to rake in sky high profits. Rather than invest in new refineries, they just repair, and have maintenance shutdowns all at the same time right before summer driving season. Consumers will continue to get screwed, until they get rid of SUV's and start to seek efficiency and conserve. Apparently they don't mind the pain, since demand continues at record levels.
The oil companies have nothing to do with anything you have just described, it is your Congressional and legislative leaders who have passed environmental laws in the past that keep oil companies from keeping prices lower. This includes this newly created ethanol additive that is more expensive to manufacture and is forcing all of the oil companies to retool their refineries to in order to produce this boondoggle.
If you look at the balance sheet of every major oil producer, they currently have a profit margin of around 7-9% based on the company. So if you want to vent, talk to the people who you elected and tell them enough is enough and get their act together for the peoples benefit.
Fib
The refiners have had ample opportunity to re-invest their profits into refineries. They have simply chosen not to. They also have immense lobbying strength. I'm sure an elected official is really going to listen to the average voter when they can be "persuaded" by big oil, and their correspondingly big bucks. As far as ethanol is concerned, you can blame the crooks at ADM, and their lobbying efforts. They are the ones who convinced elected officials that an "ethanol market" needed to be subsidized to the tune of 52 cents a gallon.
The US automakers were part of that fraud also. It was a convulated way to allow them to keep from falling further behind the foreign car makers, and keep the environmentalists off their backs. Otherwise they would have had to invest hundreds billions to meet higher CAFE standards that would have been the alternative. They knew their product sucked and would get beaten by the likes of Toyota and Honda years ago. Ethanol was an easier route to apease the tree-huggers, and taxpayers would have to foot the bill. (i.e. taxpayers and consumers could buy foreign, but they would have to still buy gas with ethanol in it.)
Ethanol is one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on the American public. Frankly I find it Ironic that Toyota and Honda are still kicking their a$$es anyway. They will stay light years ahead of the Little 3 in terms of fuel economy and emissions.
I can hardly blame elected officials because they are too crooked and too stupid to realize how the real world works in terms of technology, patents and competition. We should be thankful we have foreign competitors on the auto front, and also other fronts, otherwise we'd all still be driving Pinto's and Edsels.
I can hardly feel sorry for big oil having "low" profit margins, when XOM makes $36 BILLION in one quarter.
Heck, the people you should feel sorry for are the small businesses, who get no breaks but create most of the jobs in this country. High volume discount clothes retailers can have margins of only 2-3%.
I can bet you that $4 and $5 gas will come sooner than later, and the American public will have little they can do except perhaps capitulate and buy smaller vehicles. In India, there is a car company targeting a price of $2300 for a car to be sold for the masses in that country and China. Even if they are twice that price, it will affect gas consumption drastically in the coming decades. Imagine hundreds of millions of new auto owners in China and India. The oil companies will continue to rake in profits and give a rats a$$ about the American consumer.
#9
Posted 04 May 2007 - 04:59 PM
There is nothing that says that you MUST buy oil or its derivatives. Nor are you forced to buy a set amount. YOU, as the consumer, dictate price. Period. That's the way capitalism works. Be grateful that you can make a difference, most around the world can't.
In 2000, right after around or after the elections, I can not remember, I commented on an CNN message board that the SUVs should be immediately taxed higher or the US is heading for a serious gas shortage or price hike in the following 5-10 yrs. My message was immediately removed. I showed with the rising SUV usage that their promotion should be curbed and the efficient gas mileage should be aggressively rewarded...
- kisa
#10
Posted 04 May 2007 - 05:08 PM
No...oil
There is nothing that says that you MUST buy oil or its derivatives. Nor are you forced to buy a set amount. YOU, as the consumer, dictate price. Period. That's the way capitalism works. Be grateful that you can make a difference, most around the world can't.
Fib
Yeah right. Nobody sticks a gun to my head and says buy that darn gasoline. I can just tell my family to go pound sand because I refuse to buy gas in order to do my job in sales. Wait I know. I can start an internet business and forsake driving altogether, buy my Groceries from Peapod, and my clothes from Amazon. And I'll take the bus that stops by my neighborhood once every three days.
There is also nothing that says I need to pay the doctor either when my kid develops cancer. None of us have any moral obligations.... geez, who are you trying to kid about a free market and capitalism ? Do you have a family or any dependents ?
Edited by nimblebear, 04 May 2007 - 05:09 PM.