25 replies to this topic

[fib_1618]

So consumers are to blame..watta politico junk

I don't understand the comment here. Who else is to blame for the price of an item than the consumer of product itself? Unless, of course, you live in a country where there is no choice and you pay what the hierarchy decides what's "fair for everyone".

The refiners have had ample opportunity to re-invest their profits into refineries. They have simply chosen not to.

This is an absolute and total lie. Has been since the mid 1970's. The only people who can correct the situation are the ones that made the problem in the first place, and that is the Congress and State Legislatures of the United States.

We are in fair agreement regarding ethanol...good post.

In 2000, right after around or after the elections, I can not remember, I commented on an CNN message board that the SUVs should be immediately taxed higher or the US is heading for a serious gas shortage or price hike in the following 5-10 yrs. My message was immediately removed. I showed with the rising SUV usage that their promotion should be curbed and the efficient gas mileage should be aggressively rewarded...

OK Kisa...you can have your way on SUV's. But in return, I want a chance to come into your home, into your life, and decide what you can and can not have, and if I want to, place on tax on it as well. You game? You get the point?

Let the consumer dictate policy on consumption...not you, nor I, nor any governmental body.

Fib

Yeah right. Nobody sticks a gun to my head and says buy that darn gasoline. I can just tell my family to go pound sand because I refuse to buy gas in order to do my job in sales. Wait I know. I can start an internet business and forsake driving altogether, buy my Groceries from Peapod, and my clothes from Amazon. And I'll take the bus that stops by my neighborhood once every three days.

You do what you have to in order to live comfortably. Sometimes this includes sacrifices.

Life is never constant - it always changes - you just try to do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Fib

[TechSkeptic]

I agree with Fib, I am very grateful I can choose to make a difference even if only in a small way. One of our family cars is already a hybrid, and I expect will buy another next time I need to buy a car. Hopefully by then, plug-in hybrids will be widely available and reasonably priced, so that I can spend even less money at the pump. I don't think the government needs to penalize SUV owners, they are already feeling the penalty every time they go to fill up. I prefer the approach of giving tax incentives (both to consumers and manufacturers) for things like hybrids and solar panels, and then phase them out as the technology becomes more cost-effective to produce and the incentives are no longer necessary.

[TechSkeptic]

I agree with Fib, I am very grateful I can choose to make a difference even if only in a small way. One of our family cars is already a hybrid, and I expect will buy another next time I need to buy a car. Hopefully by then, plug-in hybrids will be widely available and reasonably priced, so that I can spend even less money at the pump. I don't think the government needs to penalize SUV owners, they are already feeling the penalty every time they go to fill up. I prefer the approach of giving tax incentives (both to consumers and manufacturers) for things like hybrids and solar panels, and then phase them out as the technology becomes more cost-effective to produce and the incentives are no longer necessary.

Just think, if all cars got double the gas mileage, you can bet it would have an impact on gas prices as well as on foreign oil dependency.

[arbman]

OK Kisa...you can have your way on SUV's. But in return, I want a chance to come into your home, into your life, and decide what you can and can not have, and if I want to, place on tax on it as well. You game? You get the point?

Let the consumer dictate policy on consumption...not you, nor I, nor any governmental body.

Here's the really stupid part, I own one SUV and one large sedan with both around 3.5L engines. Yes, I am part of the problem, not solution.

I think people should be taxed higher depending on their gas usage and emission, not based on what they are owning. It is like you use and pollute it, you fix and clean it mentality. Not to tax somebody just for owning something. In 2001, a white house report said conservation was not the American way, it aired on the TV (I think it was 60 minutes), I fell off my chair that day. There is no place in people's agenda to conserve, to keep it clean or to think about the future. People don't even think about their retirement or where they want to be in 5 yrs. However, once you push it as the public policy as well, people will never ever care about it, once they get used to it, it becomes impossible to change too... I got the point...

[skott]

Yup, we punish the oil companies, keep them from building refinaries. Then blame them because we don't have enough refinaries. I hear the UN endorced nuclear power as a way of combating global warming. About time someone stood up to the radicals and said...this is what we really need to do.

And everything I bought into shook me out then went on to make higher highs.

Sentient, what are you talking about here? what did you get shaken out of and when?

[Rogerdodger]

It seems to me that the only hope for any meaningful change for alternative transportation is higher gas prices. I'm down $165 in gas this week. THAT makes me think about making some changes. CNG is one option, but if everybody went there...$$$

[n83]

So consumers are to blame..watta politico junk

I don't understand the comment here. Who else is to blame for the price of an item than the consumer of product itself? Unless, of course, you live in a country where there is no choice and you pay what the hierarchy decides what's "fair for everyone".


Fib

the producer too..lol..blinded by market 'principles'..everything is not fairly priced..never

I agree with Fib, I am very grateful I can choose to make a difference even if only in a small way. One of our family cars is already a hybrid, and I expect will buy another next time I need to buy a car. Hopefully by then, plug-in hybrids will be widely available and reasonably priced, so that I can spend even less money at the pump. I don't think the government needs to penalize SUV owners, they are already feeling the penalty every time they go to fill up. I prefer the approach of giving tax incentives (both to consumers and manufacturers) for things like hybrids and solar panels, and then phase them out as the technology becomes more cost-effective to produce and the incentives are no longer necessary.

depends on what kind of hybrid..not the kind that provides more HP oomph and not much else

[pdx5]

USA is a basically free market country. The supply and demand sets prices of goods including gasoline. The problem here in NW US is that there are few refineries nearby. So we pay highest prices. Today's pump price is $3.45/gal If countries like India can build more modern refineries why is'nt someone building better refineries in USA? One reason and one reason only....too many restrictive laws on books. It is simply not profitable to build a new refinery...yet. But, as the prices get higher, I am hoping the public will wake up and elect new politicians who are not environmental wacko's and then we will get some relief. But I am not going to harp on big oil because they are in business to make profit and not here for some philanthropic or benevolent reason. There are many rich companies out there such as Microsoft, Walmart, big pharma etc. and nothing stops them from getting into oil business if it is so darn lucrative. And the worst idea I have heard here on this thread is that we should tax SUV's. That is blatant discrimination against those who need or desire a SUV. As someone pointed out SUV owners are already paying higher cost due to lower mpg.

[skott]

peak oil is here, now and it will get worse. we share the responsibility. we consume the gasoline, we opted for cars instead of mass transit and we elected the politicians and many of us buy gas guzzlers (not me, not even one) we have wasted our resources. I was a kid in the 70's and remember 25cent gas. when the oil shocks hit I couldn't believe we as a country were not going to prepare ourselves to oil independent or at least depend on imports as little as possible. As soon as oil came down some short sited america just went on it's merry way and forgot about the future as we always seem to do. The current hazardous way banks, hedge funds, the govt , private equity, etc carry on are another example of live today forget tomorrow. One day there will be heck to pay and we will all pay it.

[CLK]

I don't quite understand the situation here. I can see the additional demand for oil in China and India. But oil is not up that much compared to gasoline. We refine our own gasoline here in the USA right ? And we don't import or export refined gasoline to other countries ? If we don't export, then China should have no effect on our gas prices, but I understand the futures markets set prices worldwide regardless where the product is coming and going to. I don't think that China is concerned about using the clean ethanol gas yet. The demand for ethanol based gas here in the US cannot have risen enough to justify the price increases. The population growth alone can't justify it. The only thing I can think of is runaway speculation in the futures markets. If the US is exporting gasoline, it should be stopped, instead help other countries to build their own refineries. Do something to break the futures prices.