13 replies to this topic

[PorkLoin]

ChickenLittle: Without government support for ethanol, it would fail. It's just another boondoggle.

I agree with that, given the density of energy in petroleum that Bnick mentioned and the increase in the price of corn since ethanol got "hot." Perhaps with better technology and methods we can improve the return from ethanol, but I don't see it really making a big difference for the US as a whole, and for the entire world I don't see it threatening crude oil unless crude goes way, way higher in price.

My opinion is that we ought to push hard in building more nuclear plants for electricity - if we want to make ethanol, let's use as little oil as possible, and we're using more and more energy all the time on a per-capita basis anyway and of course world population is still increasing substantially.

Also - yes indeed, Bnick - we're going to be burning a LOT of coal and oil in the foreseeable future.



Doug

[beta]

CPO (corn producer) really popped today. Corn prices may be headed higher. I dont like ethanol, and agree w/ bnick that its an unnecessary agri-subsidy. Much prefer solar, wind, fuel cells.

[ogm]

CPO (corn producer) really popped today. Corn prices may be headed higher.

I dont like ethanol, and agree w/ bnick that its an unnecessary agri-subsidy.

Much prefer solar, wind, fuel cells.

The replacement of oil will happen gradualy. Not tomorrow But don't get me wrong, oil will be replaced one way or another. It has no future.

Everyone hates ethanol And yet, I think cellulose ethanol is probably one of the future booming industries.

But forget ethanol, even simple thing like hybrids, already reduces oil consumption. And technology is improving exponentialy. How many people could imagine something like Iphone 15-20 years ago ?

Ethanol production costs will come down. Technologies will improve, and once cellulose ethanol is finaly here, that will be probably the end of oil.

But oil isn't just pertoleum.

How about biodegradable plastics that ADM is working on ? You think that has no future too ? Yes, its the same corn. Which you can plant just about anywhere in the world. Or Sugar cane, or with cellulose ethanol.. green grass, or just about anything.

Corn prices will head higher only is speculators will pile into it again.Or there will be high demand from ethanol plants.. and the demand will be high if demand for ethanol will be high, and the congress has already mandated hihg demand for ethanol, which will exceede the next years avaialbe production by 5 times within the next 10 years.

Politicians love ethanol '


But even if its not ethanol oil will be replaced by something else. And in not so distant future.

Edited by ogm, 24 July 2007 - 04:17 PM.

[johngeorge]

ChickenLittle: Without government support for ethanol, it would fail. It's just another boondoggle.

I agree with that, given the density of energy in petroleum that Bnick mentioned and the increase in the price of corn since ethanol got "hot." Perhaps with better technology and methods we can improve the return from ethanol, but I don't see it really making a big difference for the US as a whole, and for the entire world I don't see it threatening crude oil unless crude goes way, way higher in price.

My opinion is that we ought to push hard in building more nuclear plants for electricity - if we want to make ethanol, let's use as little oil as possible, and we're using more and more energy all the time on a per-capita basis anyway and of course world population is still increasing substantially.

Also - yes indeed, Bnick - we're going to be burning a LOT of coal and oil in the foreseeable future.



Doug

Hi Doug

Gotta agree that oil and especially coal will be with us for a very very long time. No way around it that I can see. Cellulose ethanol is great, but, wont be enough of it for ages. Sam ting with the others like wind and solar. Above all oil and coal is still cheap and natural gas has been getting cheaper still. (I keep looking for natul gas to bottom this month ) They dont have enough trains (deteriorating tracks due to lack of maintenance for one thing) for coal hauling. Alternative energy has been a great play with oil going as high as it has. Oil is coming down now and so will most alternative energy plays IMO. Will we see oil at $100 a barrel in a years time? I am not betting against it. Still an energy bull.
Best to you.