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#11 fib_1618

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Posted 20 November 2021 - 11:12 PM

Below is my ACTUAL experience with covid vaccines:

 

>> First & second shots in Feb & march of 2021. Now after 9 months since 1st shot, only side effect I had was tired feeling on next day after 2nd shot. No such effect after 1st shot.

 

Good to hear...last year's flu shot had us dragging our sorry behinds for 2 days after...this year, nothing. Everyone (and every injection) is different.

 

>> Resumed my daily treadmill on 3rd day after second shot. I burned 81 candles in 2021.

     Feeling as athletic and strong as in my mid-40's. Can hit 250 yard drives at my age.

 

Mazel Tov.! Question here: do you take any vitamin supplements like vitamin D or C, Zinc or Magnesium???

 

>> Got my "booster" today. Thank you tax payers for 3 free vaccine shots.

 

Question 1: how many more boosters are you willing to take before you say "enough is enough"? Question 2: if not provided by the tax payers, would you spend your own money to get it?

 

>> Never suffered covid symptoms since getting jabbed.

 

And you were probably not around people who had the virus and/or you did what you mother told you to and kept your distance from those who looked sick.

 

>> Enjoyed a cruise from Port Canaveral in September 2021 which would have been impossible without the fully vaccinated document. Booked on next cruise on November 29 on Royal Caribbean ship Independence of the Seas. No un-vaxxed people allowed on either cruises. The covid protocols on last cruise in September were outstanding. It was cleaner and safer than eating in any land restaurant.

 

Thank you for finally addressing this...I was wondering how they were going to circumvent the law in Florida regarding the vaccine...now...if they will only come to their senses and allow you to be mask free in indoor areas...enjoy your next holiday!

 

>> Other 5 family members ranging in age from 28-63 also were vaxxed earlier this year.

     Zero serious adverse side effects from the vaccines. 100+ people I have talked to from condo complex community also report no serious adverse effects 6+ months after the jabs.

 

Nice to hear...they all seem to be in good health with no known per-existing health conditions. Let's remember that those who have had problems with the virus were those over 60 years old and/or had health problems...and that's generally true with ALL viruses (not so much with bacteria strains, however).

 

>> in conclusion, I can not opine if these vaccines really created anti-bodies. None of us had those tested. But none of us developed symptoms of covid. We could easily have inhaled virus in public places, and might have been infected. But the virus was killed off before developing symptoms.

 

Maybe. Remember that any vaccine will only decrease that likelihood that you will "feel" the infection with the hope of providing an immediate "full stop". The ongoing data continues to show that anyone can still get COVID whether they are vaccinated or not. The idea of this gene therapy is to give your immunity system the heads up of what antibodies need to be created to terminate this foreign matter if it gets beyond your natural (outside) defenses.

 

>> My only opinion regarding covid vaccines is they are a big nothing burger in causing adverse effects.

I say that based on personal experience and VAERS numbers for serious side effects.

 

Let's hope that continues for you and your wife, family and friends. Thanks again for your participation.

 

 


Better to ignore me than abhor me.

“Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it” - Benjamin Franklin

 

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance" - George Bernard Shaw

 

Demagogue: A leader who makes use of popular prejudices, false claims and promises in order to gain power.

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#12 Iblayz

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 01:30 PM

 

 

"If true." This is article offers a hypothetical followed by speculative conclusions that have no scientific merit.

 

 

Conclusions based on simplistic and distorted information leads to faulty conclusions. 

 

 

If you had read the entire article from the U.K. BEFORE posting this, you might have been surprised to discover that there was a LOT of information in it that would make your "religious devotion" to the government narrative stand up and cheer. But instead, you fell back on your tried and true method of discounting ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that disagrees with that narrative as faulty, speculative and unscientific. Now, you may be WAY more qualified than me to speak on this subject. But, I guarantee you that I have read MANY articles from individuals, physicians AND WELL-TRAINED epidemiologists who disagree with your clearly biased position (and YES so is mine, and I am well aware of it) and have the training and the data to back up what they are saying. Some of that has been posted here and, of course, according to you none of these people have a clue. If you were a dog, we would find you following behind Fauci, Gates, and their cohorts, wagging your tail with delight in expectation of another treat from their all-knowing and undeniably truthful and knowledgeable lips. If you ran Twitter or YouTube or Facebook or Instagram, we know exactly what you would do.....BECAUSE THEY ARE ALREADY DOING IT.


Edited by Iblayz, 21 November 2021 - 01:32 PM.


#13 LMF

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 02:08 PM

In the end all, you must realize that when any kind of risk elements are involved in a subject matter ( financial or health, well being etc) the only thing that matters is doing the due diligence yourself, that you alone think is adequate. Not ever what somebody else thinks is adequate. And we know due diligence can go from 0 to 100 on the scale. It matters not. The rule cant be changed when risk is involved. Theres no risk involved if we are debating whether Tom Brady will win another super bowl or not. You simply show up on this board and present, heres what I did. Thats a good strategy. Otherwise Its all about due diligence.

Edited by LMF, 21 November 2021 - 02:09 PM.


#14 claire

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 02:09 PM

Immunology is very complex, far from completely understood, and easily allows those not immersed in the science to be misled by jargon that offers part-truths and misleading interpretations of isolated findings. To address any of the posts in this thread would require lengthy comments with citations filled with dense information. In lieu of that, hopefully, this summary will suffice.

 

Scientists are well aware of the risk of Original Antigenic Sin (OAS) that may be a potential limitation to building protective antibodies to NEW mutations of the infection. Briefly, OAS means that the rate of production of antibodies to the original pathogen (by vaccination OR infection) is significantly faster than the body's ability to produce antibodies to the variant, leading to reduced protection from the variant. This has happened as a reaction to other diseases in the past, both by prior natural infection AND by vaccination, allerting immunologists to this risk. (By the way, OAS applies only to antibodies while the body has other forms of immunity such as by T-cell not affected by OAS.)

 

So far, vaccination data indicates that the original protection is, in fact, less efficient for the Delta variant, however, efficacy is still very high. IF new variants appear that do evade the current vaccinations, the risk of OAS can increase. This would be true for those who had Covid "naturally" too! A way to overcome this pitfall is by identifying new variants quickly and develop vaccines that contain more antigenic components of the new variant. This is what is done with vaccinations for the flu which mutates very rapidly.

This nutshell summary doesn't do justice to the complexity which is easily distorted by alarming misinterpretations that offer totally unjustified conclusions and part-truths for which sound convincing to most readers. 

A perfect example of other kinds of misleading information was in the videos describing rates of infections in different parts of the country. Colorado was mentioned as highly vaccinated.  The current total of fully vaccinated is 62%. That leaves 38% who are not and vaccinated people are 8.9 times LESS likely to be hospitalized than those unvaccinated. The video failed to mention this.

Another example: Vermont. 80% of those receiving hospital care are unvaccinated. In intensive care units, it is 84% unvaccinated. Vermont also has an older population which means they are more likely to have breakthrough cases since the elderly are more likely to be immunocompromised. Also, people in Vermont were vaccinated earlier than the rest of the country, making them more likely to need a booster. The video doesn't mention any of this.

 

The alarming rates of the unvaccinated with severe illnesses and deaths has been found all over the world. 

 

Tons of these sorts of misrepresentations are floating around on social media about masks, social distancing, and vaccinations, all quickly tweeted and posted, spreading needless fear and putting more people at risk.

Much is yet to be learned with potential surprises, both good and bad. It still isn't fully understood how aspirin works with new information popping up all the time -- never mind the individual differences in how people respond to aspirin or any other medication or treatment. The best we can do is assess risk vs benefit. 

 

For Covid, this assessment seems to be clearly in favor of masks, social distancing when necessary (especially indoors with unvaccinated people) and vaccination. My guess is that hundreds of thousands more Americans would have died if we didn't have the vaccines after the Delta variant took over. So far, the number dead is about 750,000. 



#15 claire

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 02:58 PM

 

 

 

Evidently, complex and well illustrated information, based on nothing more than hypothesis and theory, can also lead one down the same road until such information becomes scientific fact.

 

Debates do not chastise those who provide a different opinion….they present evidence and allow the reader to make their own decisions.

 

Fib

 

 

…just a conclusion based on an emotionally loaded interpretation of a piece of information not presented in any detail. 

 

 

Here’s the weekly report referenced from the Health Department of the United Kingdom for your detailed review: https://tinyurl.com/38k9324y

 

They just put out the week 46 report, so the data provided can be considered “old” information, but it is worth noting that Israel and the UK have been about 4-6 weeks ahead of the data curve before the goal posts are moved here in the United States.

 

I’ve included the latest week 46 report as a matter of courtesy: https://tinyurl.com/4dtdkdak

 

Remember, all I said was “If True” for I didn’t have the time earlier today to verify and review an arbituary Twitter post to add to my cumulative total of what has already been provided from all sides since early last year.

 

Fib

 

 

I just read through both reports.  Are you suggesting that anything here refutes their conclusions that vaccinations have been extremely effective in substantially reducing hospitalizations and deaths. Am I missing something?  Their conclusion from the evidence presented is that vaccinations have likely averted 261,500 hospitalization and 127,500 deaths up to September 2021 among those over age 45.



#16 fib_1618

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 03:03 PM

For Covid, this assessment seems to be clearly in favor of masks, social distancing when necessary (especially indoors with unvaccinated people) and vaccination.

 

OK...I'm glad you brought this up....and since you have evidently culled through the data exceedingly well, I have some questions:

 

Are you able to show the actual data that supports that masks "work"? If so, what type, the coverage needed and under what kind of environment???

 

Next: on the subject of social distancing...where is the data that supports that 6 feet is the golden rule? Why not 10 feet? Why not at arms length?

 

Finally, can you provide that actual statistical data that supports that only unvaccinated people are the evil doers? Given that more people have died this year than all of last year after the introduction of the mRNA vaccine at the beginning of the year, and since over 70% of the population is...ummm..."fully vaccinated" (boosters aside), the math just doesn't jive.

 

Please take care on which sources you use in answering these questions as we wouldn't want the stench of monetary government (bureaucratic) grants to get in the way of fair and honest statistics from where such assessments can be provided without reproach. No consensus here. After all, we are dealing with "The Science", and science is: principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and then the formulation and testing of hypotheses in a crtical effort to gain knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through these same experiments and observations.

 

Fib


Better to ignore me than abhor me.

“Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it” - Benjamin Franklin

 

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance" - George Bernard Shaw

 

Demagogue: A leader who makes use of popular prejudices, false claims and promises in order to gain power.

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#17 fib_1618

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 03:21 PM

 

 

 

 

Evidently, complex and well illustrated information, based on nothing more than hypothesis and theory, can also lead one down the same road until such information becomes scientific fact.

 

Debates do not chastise those who provide a different opinion….they present evidence and allow the reader to make their own decisions.

 

Fib

 

 

…just a conclusion based on an emotionally loaded interpretation of a piece of information not presented in any detail. 

 

 

Here’s the weekly report referenced from the Health Department of the United Kingdom for your detailed review: https://tinyurl.com/38k9324y

 

They just put out the week 46 report, so the data provided can be considered “old” information, but it is worth noting that Israel and the UK have been about 4-6 weeks ahead of the data curve before the goal posts are moved here in the United States.

 

I’ve included the latest week 46 report as a matter of courtesy: https://tinyurl.com/4dtdkdak

 

Remember, all I said was “If True” for I didn’t have the time earlier today to verify and review an arbituary Twitter post to add to my cumulative total of what has already been provided from all sides since early last year.

 

Fib

 

 

 Am I missing something?

 

1) The two words "if true" continue to escape you.

 

2) the premise of the post was that (as found on page 23) "(iii) recent observations from UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) surveillance data that N antibody levels appear to be lower in individuals who acquire infection following 2 doses of vaccination."

 

I only provided the resources of the thread...I suggested nothing directly from these same reports.

 

Fib


Better to ignore me than abhor me.

“Wise men don't need advice. Fools won't take it” - Benjamin Franklin

 

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance" - George Bernard Shaw

 

Demagogue: A leader who makes use of popular prejudices, false claims and promises in order to gain power.

Technical Watch Subscriptions



 


#18 claire

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 03:34 PM

 

For Covid, this assessment seems to be clearly in favor of masks, social distancing when necessary (especially indoors with unvaccinated people) and vaccination.

 

OK...I'm glad you brought this up....and since you have evidently culled through the data exceedingly well, I have some questions:

 

Are you able to show the actual data that supports that masks "work"? If so, what type, the coverage needed and under what kind of environment???

 

Next: on the subject of social distancing...where is the data that supports that 6 feet is the golden rule? Why not 10 feet? Why not at arms length?

 

Finally, can you provide that actual statistical data that supports that only unvaccinated people are the evil doers? Given that more people have died this year than all of last year after the introduction of the mRNA vaccine at the beginning of the year, and since over 70% of the population is...ummm..."fully vaccinated" (boosters aside), the math just doesn't jive.

 

Please take care on which sources you use in answering these questions as we wouldn't want the stench of monetary government (bureaucratic) grants to get in the way of fair and honest statistics from where such assessments can be provided without reproach. No consensus here. After all, we are dealing with "The Science", and science is: principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and then the formulation and testing of hypotheses in a crtical effort to gain knowledge about or study of the natural world based on facts learned through these same experiments and observations.

 

Fib

 

 

OK. I'll get to it. I would like to answer those questions to the best of my ability backed by, hopefully, good research. I don't know what you would  consider "tainted" by the government. Is the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) ok or The Journal of the American Medical Assn. (JAMA) or the Lancet? or Annals of Internal Medicine? - leading medical journals that are peer reviewed and have their reputations at stake.  If not these, what do you suggest?

 

I've already spent far more time on this thread than I intended, but I think it's important that I do try to address these questions. I'm glad that you're raising them and giving me an opportunity to speak to these concerns.



#19 cycletimer

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 04:05 PM

This is NOT HYPOTHESIS, This is not THEORY. Below is my ACTUAL experience with covid vaccines.

 

>> First & second shots in Feb & march of 2021. Now after 9 months since 1st shot, only side effect I had was tired feeling on next day after 2nd shot. No such effect after 1st shot.

 

>> Resumed my daily treadmill on 3rd day after second shot. I burned 81 candles in 2021.

     Feeling as athletic and strong as in my mid-40's. Can hit 250 yard drives at my age.

 

>> Got my "booster" today. Thank you tax payers for 3 free vaccine shots.

 

>> Never suffered covid symptoms since getting jabbed.

 

>> Enjoyed a cruise from Port Canaveral in September 2021 which would have been impossible without the fully vaccinated document. Booked on next cruise on November 29 on Royal Caribbean ship Independence of the Seas. No un-vaxxed people allowed on either cruises. The covid protocols on last cruise in September were outstanding. It was cleaner and safer than eating in any land restaurant.

 

>> Other 5 family members ranging in age from 28-63 also were vaxxed earlier this year.

     Zero serious adverse side effects from the vaccines. 100+ people I have talked to from condo complex community also report no serious adverse effects 6+ months after the jabs.

 

>> in conclusion, I can not opine if these vaccines really created anti-bodies. None of us had those tested. But none of us developed symptoms of covid. We could easily have inhaled virus in public places, and might have been infected. But the virus was killed off before developing symptoms.

 

>> My only opinion regarding covid vaccines is they are a big nothing burger in causing adverse effects.

I say that based on personal experience and VAERS numbers for serious side effects.

 

>> 228,570,531 people or 70% of the population already jabbed, I have not seen reports of people dropping dead on the side walks. Statistically, these vaccines are a big nothing burger in causing serious adverse effects.

 

https://usafacts.org...tracker-states/

 

 

 

 

And the covid virus is nothing more than a bad case of the flu…..



#20 cycletimer

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Posted 21 November 2021 - 04:08 PM

 Here’s my reasoning for NOT taking the vaccine,  my wife and I NEVER take the jab…… If you have a 99.7% chance of never sh*tting in your pants but they mandate that you were diapers everyday anyway, how logical is that?  I have a 99.7% chance of surviving the effects of this Plan-Demic, therefore I won’t take the jab, 


Edited by cycletimer, 21 November 2021 - 04:08 PM.