12 replies to this topic

[NAV]

From Jawndiseddi

In order for people like me to enjoy the mind-bogglingly low commission rates that IB charges, it is necessary for traders like those who dominate this board to manically zip in and out of the market on every signal they can find. This is a good a thing, and I encourage it. I also encourage folks to carry large balances on their credit cards, to HELOC any real estate they may own, and to generate as much fee and interest income as possible for the beleaguered institutions in the financial sector. The longer you keep thrashing around, the longer I get to ride for free. TIA.

Your above rhetoric is not only meaningless, but lacks a trader's spirit. But then, you have always been good at rhetoric . It embodies your negative approach toward trading, in that, you view trading as a commision generator to brokerage houses and not as a lucrative money making machine. And such thinking is doomed to failure, without a iota of doubt.

Just an example:

Three hourly signals posted by me today, all given on hourly bar close. I have posted all these real-time. Go check out my posts.

Signal 1: Made 9 points on ER2 and 9 points on ES (countertrend buy)
Signal 2: Made 6 points on ER2 and 10 points on ES (continuation sell)
Signal 3: Could have made 10 points on ES, but i waited longer and actually lost 4 points. (countertrend buy).

Why are so many signals generated ? - cuz we are in a high volatile downmove with 3 to 4, 20 point swings on ES. Otherwise, we would typically get one or two hourly signals in a week.

That's 9+10-4 = 15 points on ES and 9+6 = 15 points on ER2. That's about $750 per contract on ES and $1500 per contract on ER2. The total commision on all those trades, paid to the broker per contract was $25. Now, who's getting rich ? And when you do that on leverage....you get the pciture. I keep hearing about this worn out cliche about how the brokerage houses are made rich by the ST traders.


Again what was i doing today ? Plain and simple trading. Why is trading such a anathema on this baord ? It's ironical and weird when it comes from traders posting on trader's talk, criticizing active traders ! I have seen this coming generally at the tail end of the trends (both up and down)

There are ten different ways to skin the cat. You could daytrade, swingtrade, position trade, with leverage, without leverage, trend trade, countertrend trade, trade support/resistances - in the end, your account is only as good as you are. The day you realize that 50 ES points made in a month on 100% leverage and 20 ES points made in a day or less on 250% leverage are not one and the same, as the timeframe is lesser and the drawdown characteristics are way different, it will open up a new world for you.

Manically zip in and out - Hmmm...Isn't that's what called trading ? - Sometime, i feel like a moron, posting these signals here and receiving comments like above. If my signal win/loss ratio were less than 50%, such comments would have had some merit, exposing the downside of VST trading. But with a win/loss ratio above 80%....it just beats me. Maybe my VST signals are a distraction and noise to those trading the higher timeframes...Maybe. Maybe i should just stick to posting links to doom and gloom news articles on the web. That's more interesting and easy. I will take a break from posting these signals for a while.

Edited by NAV, 28 July 2007 - 02:15 AM.

[greenie]

I also think trading, where one spends all his daily attention to monitor every minute movement of the indices, is unproductive to the society. If someone is good enough in catching all intraday ups and downs to consistently make money, he is a very smart person to be as successful in other productive efforts. The above is just my personal attitude towards trading.

[wyocowboy]

Nav - please don't quit posting your signals. I know that I am am one that has ticked you off in the past - but it was not because your short term signals are a "distraction". I am forced to a longer time frame because I can't watch the market while at work. But I believe you are as good as anyone at the short time frame and I always read your posts.

[Tor]

Can I ask please, what is "IBD" TIA

[ken29]

Nav. Your skill in trading has proven that you are THE BEST TRADER here at TT, keep up the good work and don't let any jealous traders bother you. We all know who is DA MAN here at TT

[ChickenLittle]

Nav.

Your skill in trading has proven that you are THE BEST TRADER here at TT, keep up the good work and don't let any jealous traders bother you. We all know who is DA MAN here at TT

Nav,

I always like to read your TA. It's among the best and always a good read. But you gotta have thick skin on this board. Can't let some thoughtless comments bother you. Pay attention to well meaning people and ignore the crud. Too bad some comments are mean spirited and jealous but we are dealing with people and some are like that. It just seems when people post things (instead of face to face) that people forget their manners.

[jawndissedi]

From Jawndiseddi

In order for people like me to enjoy the mind-bogglingly low commission rates that IB charges, it is necessary for traders like those who dominate this board to manically zip in and out of the market on every signal they can find. This is a good a thing, and I encourage it. I also encourage folks to carry large balances on their credit cards, to HELOC any real estate they may own, and to generate as much fee and interest income as possible for the beleaguered institutions in the financial sector. The longer you keep thrashing around, the longer I get to ride for free. TIA.

Your above rhetoric is not only meaningless, but lacks a trader's spirit. But then, you have always been good at rhetoric . It embodies your negative approach toward trading, in that, you view trading as a commision generator to brokerage houses and not as a lucrative money making machine. And such thinking is doomed to failure, without a iota of doubt.

Just an example:

Three hourly signals posted by me today, all given on hourly bar close. I have posted all these real-time. Go check out my posts.

Signal 1: Made 9 points on ER2 and 9 points on ES (countertrend buy)
Signal 2: Made 6 points on ER2 and 10 points on ES (continuation sell)
Signal 3: Could have made 10 points on ES, but i waited longer and actually lost 4 points. (countertrend buy).

Why are so many signals generated ? - cuz we are in a high volatile downmove with 3 to 4, 20 point swings on ES. Otherwise, we would typically get one or two hourly signals in a week.

That's 9+10-4 = 15 points on ES and 9+6 = 15 points on ER2. That's about $750 per contract on ES and $1500 per contract on ER2. The total commision on all those trades, paid to the broker per contract was $25. Now, who's getting rich ? And when you do that on leverage....you get the pciture. I keep hearing about this worn out cliche about how the brokerage houses are made rich by the ST traders.


Again what was i doing today ? Plain and simple trading. Why is trading such a anathema on this baord ? It's ironical and weird when it comes from traders posting on trader's talk, criticizing active traders ! I have seen this coming generally at the tail end of the trends (both up and down)

There are ten different ways to skin the cat. You could daytrade, swingtrade, position trade, with leverage, without leverage, trend trade, countertrend trade, trade support/resistances - in the end, your account is only as good as you are. The day you realize that 50 ES points made in a month on 100% leverage and 20 ES points made in a day or less on 250% leverage are not one and the same, as the timeframe is lesser and the drawdown characteristics are way different, it will open up a new world for you.

Manically zip in and out - Hmmm...Isn't that's what called trading ? - Sometime, i feel like a moron, posting these signals here and receiving comments like above. If my signal win/loss ratio were less than 50%, such comments would have had some merit, exposing the downside of VST trading. But with a win/loss ratio above 80%....it just beats me. Maybe my VST signals are a distraction and noise to those trading the higher timeframes...Maybe. Maybe i should just stick to posting links to doom and gloom news articles on the web. That's more interesting and easy. I will take a break from posting these signals for a while.

My, my -- aren't we touchy? One would think that the profits from all those trades you're so proud of would be sufficient, but no -- what you're really seeking is recognition, admiration, respect. And see how frustrated and defensive you become when they're not consistently forthcoming from all quarters.

The funny thing is that I actually do admire you for being one of the very few folks on this board whose trading is truly transparent and therefore credible. However, you have an appetite for "action" that is makes little sense if you're trading goal is simply to make money. Collateral objectives frequently pave the way to unsuccessful outcomes.

With regard to your superficial observations about economic fundamentals in an adjacent thread, I would be the first admit that -- for extended periods of time -- it is possible to trade profitably exclusively on technical analysis. However, every once in a while, the parallel universe of TA intersects with something called reality -- at which point the results can be very painful for folks who are solely concerned with wave counts, sentiment indicators, and all the rest. Whether or not we're now on the verge of one of those intersections is something that will only be revealed in the fullness of time. Best of luck to you, NAV.

[Rogerdodger]

Some posters here willingly share their opinions and trading style with no benefit to themselves.
I appreciate that very much as do most here.
But for the life of me, I can't understand those who need to try and attack one's decisions or trading style.

To the few posters here who seldom offer anything positive but only attack others, PLEASE:

SHUT THE HELL UP!

You have already run off many good posters.
Thank You.
Roger

Edited by Rogerdodger, 28 July 2007 - 11:56 AM.

[flyers&divers]

I am maily scalping these days (Crude) and basically now I am a lurker on the board. This is a great board thanks to Mark and contributors like NAV, hiker, airdale, Denleo, OGM, mss, Senor BS, Pork Loin, sticksn, silent one, and many others who I may have failed to mention. I would like to make just one observation. The frequency of one's trading has to do with one's personality and concurrent mental/pscihological condition, so no one should ever question other's methods or motives. There is one aspect of market movement I don't see discussed much is what cycle in the market is dominant. I don't mean cycle in the regular sense but more like on what time scale the ebb and flow of intensity is at the moment. Skilled traders try to figure out thisd ebb and flow and if they are tuned to it it's like magic. You and the market are one. In individual stocks (unless it's a MOMO stock), the dominant intensity may be daily as the stock is dragged up and down by the ebb and flow of the market, with an occasional jolt from a news item or right after a breakout/breakdown. In futures the dominant action (where there are clearly formed tradeable patterns)are both intra day and inter-day because of leverage more attention is paid to every little move. It takes a lot of learned skill and stamina to figure out,track this and consistently be good at it. NAV and Mr.Dev are on this wavelength (where the futures action is most of the time) and they are gret at it. When the market is in a crisis mode or after important releases the dominant intensity becomes microscopic. In the last few days the 1 and 3 and 15 minutes charts of ES, EQ, YM had as many good formations as one would have on hourlies in months and dailies in two years. When peole don't understand a sudden move it could be because dynamics of a different wavelength are in play then the ones the trader is used to. It is the best to stay clear of these situations - one should chose one battles carefully and stay clear of slower or faster markets then what one is used to. Because of my present personal situation I don't have the best attention span so I choose a wavelength that requires zero emotinal commitment and it is tradeable in the most active futures, scalping crude and sometimes ER2 for a few ticks. I use a 15 second chart for entries and a 1 and 3 minutes charts for perspective. Yea, IB is happy, some days I trade hundreds of contracts. So what? As long my account grows a few inches, it's worth it. Good trading to everyone, F&D

[NAV]

My, my -- aren't we touchy? One would think that the profits from all those trades you're so proud of would be sufficient, but no -- what you're really seeking is recognition, admiration, respect. And see how frustrated and defensive you become when they're not consistently forthcoming from all quarters.

The funny thing is that I actually do admire you for being one of the very few folks on this board whose trading is truly transparent and therefore credible. However, you have an appetite for "action" that is makes little sense if you're trading goal is simply to make money. Collateral objectives frequently pave the way to unsuccessful outcomes.

With regard to your superficial observations about economic fundamentals in an adjacent thread, I would be the first admit that -- for extended periods of time -- it is possible to trade profitably exclusively on technical analysis. However, every once in a while, the parallel universe of TA intersects with something called reality -- at which point the results can be very painful for folks who are solely concerned with wave counts, sentiment indicators, and all the rest. Whether or not we're now on the verge of one of those intersections is something that will only be revealed in the fullness of time. Best of luck to you, NAV.

jawndissedi,

No, i am not here for admiration from anyone. The reason i responded was because you called me an action junkie. I am positive you never traded the markets the last two days. It was gut wrenching action for those who traded it and those who did, know it. Now go tell the market to curb it's appetite for action. The total range on hourly charts yesterday was nearly 100 ES points. That's how volatile the day was. No wonder i had three signals on the hourly in a day.

When you get a signal you gotta take it, whether trend or countertrend. darn right !. After the action is over, it's easy to comment that all that trading circus was unwarranted and the traders behaved like manic depressives and all they had to do was sit tight. Had one of those hourly signals taken off and ES had closed 30 points up, it would have been a different story. The whole trend trading community would have gone silent. I have seen that numerous times on this board. And if i were trading 100% leverage, beleive me i can sit like saint in meditation, without any concern for 10-20 point SPX noise. When you are trading leverage, it's a different story and 30 points could give you a serious drawdown. If i don't trade with leverage, beleive me, it's not worth my time. I would be washing dishes for a living (and i would have been qualified as a productive individual by Greenie, LOL).

Remember April 2005. Me and XD&Cox were the only traders, i recall who were long that day of the bottom. The MCO configuration was eerily similar to one we have today around -100. One of those countertrend hourly signals took off and we closed up nearly 30 points up that day and then the market never looked back. It just takes a spark here to produce one of those 30-40 points SPX rally. One has to be on an alert for such moves. It pays to play every one of these signals at this stage (trend and countertrend).

As for the TA meeting the reality, reality is the market and the price. The rest are opinions, darn opinions and delusional perceptions. Those delusional perceptions generally meet the reality right near the bull market tops and bear market bottoms.