29 replies to this topic

[GOOSE2]

Firstly, you know how we know that trading is productive to society? It makes money. If you don't over time, then you're just distributing your income to better traders and investors, but if you do, you are, by definition improving the efficiency of the market, which is why you are rewarded with income.

You are not including opportunity cost in the calculation. Let's consider IYB, who runs a mortgage business and also does swing trades. If he instead starts to chase action of every hour, but loses his mortgage business, will he be making money on the net?

Secondly, I do not understand what efficiency is created by chasing movement of every minute. All I see is a zero sum game, where money gets redistributed among traders, while time of each one is wasted. Is it any different from the casinos, where few people make money, most lose and the casino owners always make a profit? Aren't those winning money in the casinos bringing efficiency to the society? Great scientists like James Watt invented steam engine, Graham Bell invented phone, benefits of which we enjoy even today. Please tell me, what benefit to the society daytraders will bring that will be remembered after 100 years?

Ahhh, but thats where your wrong. It's an 80/20 game. 80% lose, 20% gain the other 80% money. Those that can do. Those that can't whine.

[NAV]

Greenie, I already had enough with jawndessidi this weekend. So i kept my mouth shut at your ignorant remarks. You think like a socialist. We don't live for the benefit of the society, but for the benefit of ourselves, which has positive repercussions on the society in unseen ways. An entrepeneur is a greedy individual who runs business for his own selfish money making interests, but not with a intention of providing jobs to the society. What drives him is his inner desire to acheive his selfish goals. From a socialist view-point, he is just another greedy individual, a huge shareholder in his company. But in the end, he serves a noble goal of providing jobs to hundreds or thousands of individuals, the jobs which would not have existed, had it not been for his selfish interests. Yes, a trader can be spun as an unproductive individual, from someone who don't understand the importance of market liquidity. Who's a sceintist for that matter ? You can spin him as another greedy individual seeking his intellectual interests or just another corporate slave or an individual watching some darn microrganism under a microscope for the rest of his life. But is that true ? Heck no ! I think you need to take a starter course in capitalism, individualism. "Atlas Shrugged" should be a good starter, if you have already not read it. Trading is the ultimate individualist activity, you can think of ! If you think individualism is bad, i think you living in the wrong country and the wrong society and it will be torturous existence for you. My trading is supporting my family today and that's a noble act for me. My trading will start supporting a few businesses in the near future. Call me an unproductive individual, who will be suporting a few productive individuals, for now ! Ellsworth Toohey, Wesley mouch - Mark, you made my day

Edited by NAV, 29 July 2007 - 11:28 PM.

[NAV]

Greenie, Talking about productivity, what productive value to the society is all that perma-bearish research you spend countless hours on? You probably spend more hours thinking about the doom-gloom real estate scenario than your day job. Those unproductive hours could have gone towards your day job or some community service. Heck, we all live in our own ivory towers of moral righteousness, without realizing it's nothing more than petty hypocrisy !!

Edited by NAV, 30 July 2007 - 12:47 AM.

[arbman]

Real estate might be making a temporary bottom, the rates will come down into 2008...

[kaiser soze]

Did you guys get to see Nicholas Cage in "Lord of War" ? Awesome movie and had some great quotes, which I find oddly relevant. "Why do I do it ? Because I'm good at it" Another one: "Very early on, I learnt its no use fighting one's own biology"

[OEXCHAOS]

Man, by his very nature, is a trader. He exchanges value for value with his fellow man. We survive through rational thought, reason, and ethical interaction with each other. In my view, beyond pursuing our own rationally held values and goals, we really have but one duty, and that is to treat our fellow man ethically, as an individual (as opposed to some member of a group), and recognize him as the present or future potential trading partner that he is. Mark

[Jnavin]

Greenie,

I already had enough with jawndessidi this weekend. So i kept my mouth shut at your ignorant remarks.

You think like a socialist. We don't live for the benefit of the society, but for the benefit of ourselves, which has positive repercussions on the society in unseen ways. An entrepeneur is a greedy individual who runs business for his own selfish money making interests, but not with a intention of providing jobs to the society. What drives him is his inner desire to acheive his selfish goals. From a socialist view-point, he is just another greedy individual, a huge shareholder in his company. But in the end, he serves a noble goal of providing jobs to hundreds or thousands of individuals, the jobs which would not have existed, had it not been for his selfish interests.

Yes, a trader can be spun as an unproductive individual, from someone who don't understand the importance of market liquidity. Who's a sceintist for that matter ? You can spin him as another greedy individual seeking his intellectual interests or just another corporate slave or an individual watching some darn microrganism under a microscope for the rest of his life. But is that true ? Heck no !

I think you need to take a starter course in capitalism, individualism. "Atlas Shrugged" should be a good starter, if you have already not read it. Trading is the ultimate individualist activity, you can think of ! If you think individualism is bad, i think you living in the wrong country and the wrong society and it will be torturous existence for you. My trading is supporting my family today and that's a noble act for me. My trading will start supporting a few businesses in the near future. Call me an unproductive individual, who will be suporting a few productive individuals, for now !


Ellsworth Toohey, Wesley mouch - Mark, you made my day

A Theory of Justice by John Rawls.

[OEXCHAOS]

I'll do you one better:

Un-rugged Individualism by David Kelly. It's eye opening and not what many would expect from a leading objectivist thinker.

http://www.objectivi...ividualism.aspx

[Rogerdodger]

Remember that under socialism, nobody does anything unproductive. Except maybe wait in a long line for bread.

[NAV]

Remember that under socialism, nobody does anything unproductive.
Except maybe wait in a long line for bread.

You are a real hoot